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#14820 04/23/04 04:11 PM
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Hi guys...i am a new poster to this board and i've just read the thread entiltled "Holosync or Sedona Method?"
since a lot of you are aware of both programs i figured you are the people to talk to.....firstly, i have used both the Holosync and Sedona Method programs....after reading many of your posts on Holosync, i would say that i agree with most of you that Holosync is vastly overrated....infact, i suspect there's something 'fishy' about that course but i don't know what...i have used the Awakening Prologue since April 4th, 2003 and i have also undergone the 1st of Bill Harris's latest teleconference seminars...i am curently on the second teleconference seminar, and what have i received foe all this? NOTHING...ZERO! infact, my results haven't been neutral in the least; they've been rather neagtive...i have experienced emotional upheaval/pain as well as physical upheaval on pretty much an everyday basis...my system has not come any closer to getting used to the Holosync stimulus throughout this time (and it's been over a year)...there were times when i felt like commiting suicide due to the acute emotional pain i'd experience from using Holosync, and mentally, i've felt in the past year like i'm dumber as well as physically more lethargic...basically, my life before Holosync was much better than it is now, and even then it wasn't good...now that i've decided to stop because i'm getting worse because of Holosync, i've decided to follow the example of some of you and stop Holosync, but now i'm stuck and confused...i mainly used Holosync because i am suffering from a lot of 'internal resistance' - Bill Harris promised me that Holosync would resolve this, but i am now realizing this is BS!! you see, consciously, i have been very desperate for change for the past 4 years, but internally i have always struggled with ('resisted') personal growth, and i've noticed that my inner force is more powerful than my conscious desire to grow and change because the Sedona Method, Releasetechnique, Natural Brilliance, Invisible Path to success (basically every course Bill Harris endorses) as well as several paraliminals, and nothing works for me ..this is so depressing because all these courses seem to work for everybody else, especially the Sedona Method - now, i know that the problem is internal, but i don't know what to do - so can anybody please enlighten me as to what to do?
Thank you!






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What are your goals?

Where would you like to head specifically in your life? Do, Be, Achieve?

Alex.






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i don't have many specific goals per se...my overall goal is just to gain emotional well-being, improved relationships, enhanced seflf esteem, confidence, etc, as well to get over my emotional pain and fears once and for all....I'm just generally stuck in my life and rather unhappy, and i wanna revert this around - PEACE OF MIND is the goal, but i just can't seem to quieten my mind.






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Maybe if you stopped pursuing peace of mind you might actually feel better?

You know that what you have been doing hasn't been working for you. So simply stop.

Easier said than done in some cases. I know that in my case, my way of trying to get a handle on things or control things often makes me feel like crap. It works very well for some technical problems in some contexts, but when applied to the activity of my mind and emotions, it just won't work.

Reality just wont play by my rules, it seems. So, what do you do? For me, for now, I simply decide to let go and focus on what I enjoy.

I think Alex has a point in asking about what you want specifically. Your mental map for experiencing, having, continuing to have, and failing to beat this problem is very detailed. It looks like you could easily write reams and reams about it if you wanted, right?

So, it'd probably be beneficial to start playing around with the ideas of experiencing and having what you want. If you had a perfect day, what would that be like? If you experienced some of these emotional problems and it really wasn't a problem for you, what would that be like? If you lived with peace of mind, what would that be like?

Maybe the mind is like an animal, you coop it up and do all kinds of stuff to it to try and make it work by your rules, and it isn't very peaceful. It gets all riled up, frustrated, and angry. Maybe you should just give your mind room to do what it likes?

Your ideas about how to have, experience, and maintain peace of mind may have nothing to do with what actually gives your mind peace. You are not your mind, you do not consciously know everything about your mind.

Study your mind, find out what makes it feel peaceful, and let it have that.

Stalk feelings of peace throughout your day. Don't try and create them, just discover them and study the tracks that led your mind to that place. That is, make a more and more detailed map of peace of mind ... how it occurs naturally for you.







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One way to have more feeling of peace is to notice what does give you feeling of peace. Listening to certain music, watching a sunrise or sunset, riding a bike with kids, going fishing?

My guess is those things are the things most often neglected in the business of our lives, slot some time in for it. Since you got an hour where you used to listen to Holosync why not paint, read a book, go for a walk. So something that just is for doing because you enjoy it. Who says you have to keep fixing yourself every moment of the day?

I was probably in a similar place and I finally got fed up... nothing worked anyway so I just gave up. Stopped trying to find answers, didn't bother with self pitty just quit giving a damned about what others thought was wrong with me, what I thought was wrong with me and accepted that some things may never be fixed. To my good fortune right after I gave up so did my TV. So for 3 months I had nothing but my company and I couldn't be bothered reading books. In other words for me it started with just accepting things the way they are. I won't say that was easy but then the existence I was living before wasn't easy either.

Alex






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king411

From what you are writing I get the impression that you are in a kind of deep hole or to say it differently you seem to be
stuck in an upset. That may have happened many years ago or just a few years ago.

Anyway, in such a situation goal setting is
not on the agenda. Survival is!!
Also Holosync will certainly help if you stay long enough on the program and go through the deeper levels it may take a few
years before you can see an improvement.

That's far to long if one is stuck in a bad situation.

There are other much faster ways to get out of such a rut. Once you have resolved that
problem you can do Sedona or H/S much easier.

I know I have been in such a rut about eight
years ago before I discovered H/S. So the H/S is not a big problem for me but I too
have my overwhelms but can handle them easily.








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Man, I hear you! I'm currently on AL2 of Holosync, and am recently experiencing much overwhelm. It seems seperate from my conscious mind somehow, but it is still intense. Does anyone have any advice on how they've dealt with their overwhelm? Consciously I know everything is wonderful, but my body still is reacting adversely.

What were some of the longest periods you experienced overwhelm, and did any insights cause you to better deal with/disperse it?

Cheers,
*Mani.







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The overwhelm just gets easier to handle the further you go in levels...at least that has been my experience.

The best overwhelm releaser that I have found is The Release Technique (for me it works better then the Sedona Method).






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weight39doug,

It's been a long time since I've seen a post from you. Where have you been? Anyway, how did you go about learning the release technique?, and what is your take it?

3D.






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What is the release technique again?






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King411,

I understand how you feel. Sedonna seems to help most people, but it hasn't done squat for me. Have you ever tried EFT? It has made a big difference in my life. The best part about it is that it's free. The website for EFT, http://emofree.com/ has a ton of useful information on it. Hope that helps.








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Have you tried the videos out? What has been your experience with this method? It looks interesting.






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Holosync is, in my own and others experience, probably the biggest - and definitely one of the most unhealthy - scams in the personal development industry. Take a look at the Centerpointe discussion forum for some of the most gullible self help junkies around. Following what goes on there is pretty good proof the 'Program' won't do you much good at all. The marketing employed by the company is so overboard and out of line it's no wonder rumours abound they have been taken to court on more than one occasion.






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To balance the scales...

There are accounts of lives changing drasticly and for the better (at the forum).

So there's two sides of the coin alright.. I've exprienced them both with Holosync.

T






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That's right Tore, there needs to be a balance struck in regards to Orbital's post. If you look without bias, there are plenty of postive posts of how holosync is and has improved people's lives.

And NO we aren't the most gullible self-help junkies around, maybe third though; with Awakening Minds first and Learning Strategies second LOL,LOL!!






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Orbital,

If hs would be as bad as you said then CRI would not grow at such a rate. (it does not sound very HUMBLE)
I do think that hs it not for everyone. Some people, especially the younger bloaks are seek a quick fix to get all the promised
benefits.
They don't realize that they might have to cope with a lot of overwhelm. (as advertised
on the CRI board)

If one feels cranky or depressed or has a lot of other hang-ups then such a person should have some up-set handling sessions.

If he/she got rid of those obvious problems
then he/she should do hs to clear up all the rest. The overwhelm from hs will be much
less.


[This message has been edited by Frodo02 (edited June 02, 2004).]






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CRI's growth is not necessarily a statement about the efficacy of their product in giving people what they say it will.

Rather, it is a statement about the efficacy of their marketing and what people are willing to believe.

"They'll pay to know what they really think." -- J. R. "Bob" Dobbs

I think it would be funny to throw some of their marketing crap right back at them. Send them an envelope that has an envelope inside of it, and in that envelope has an envelope inside of it, etc. Five envelopes total if you're of a Discordian mindset.

In the last envelope there's a little leaflet that reads in large, bold text, "F*** YOU!"

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited June 02, 2004).]






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babayada,

<CRI's growth is not necessarily a statement about the efficacy of their product in giving people what they say it will.
Rather, it is a statement about the efficacy of their marketing and what people are willing to believe.>>>

I disagree with you because companies who do not produce values ie ripping off their customers will not thrive for long, not for years as CRI does.

This is especially true in today internet environment where information about values or disvalues are circulating fast.

<<In the last envelope there's a little leaflet that reads in large, bold text, "F*** YOU!">>

Your message shows your sick mind set.

Not very HUMBLE either........









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A sick mind set?

It's interesting that you can determine my state of pathology from so few words on my behalf. That's amazing! Are you a practicing psychotherapist?

Tell me, is judging the humility of others and making public proclamations about it a humble act? Or is it, like judging someone's mind set as sick, arrogant?

Re: the topic at hand, what does humility have to do with the accuracy of someone's argument? Nothing.

Companies that rip off their customers don't last for long? Phew. What world are you living in? Take a look around. They do it all the time. There is actual value and perceived value. And there will never be a shortage of pure suckers.

CRI rips people off. They make sure to instill a mind set of double think (the fact that it's not working means that it's working!) in their potential and existing customers. It's not just a product, it is a philosophy geared towards keeping customers locked in and purchasing and purchasing for as long as possible.

It's a work of art. It isn't whether a person is being ripped off or not, it's whether they perceive they are being ripped off or not.

I do believe holosync works for some people. I believe it doesn't work for others. By and large, however, I think it is a scam. They make outrageous claims and their material is filled with pseudoscientific hogwash. The way they market their product speaks volumes about their ethics and intentions.

But, hey, keep defending them. Your argumentation proves many points about the product that are important to those of us who are decidedly anti-centerpointe.







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I often read posts on the Forums here and I see you slamming your own lives, slamming each other, and slamming other companies.

Consider that how you do anything is how you do everything.

That this Forum is a mirror of your life when you post to it.

Let's talk self-improvement. Do you dabble in self-improvement? If so, how you do anything is how you do everything.

Consider making self-improvement a mission and not just a hobby. Consider...

* practicing Spring Forest Qigong everyday for at least 30 minutes even when you don't feel like it. I dare you to do two-hour sessions now and then.

* listening to CD 6 of Natural Brilliance (the Natural Brilliance Generator) at least once a quarter.

* doing the Feeling Exercise and Inquiry Process from Abundance for Life as often every day as you need to until you free up your life from judgements and labels, until you break from the trance that keep you from super enjoying every single aspect of your life.







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quote:
Originally posted by Prosperity:
Have you tried the videos out? What has been your experience with this method? It looks interesting.

Sorry about the late reply. I have been working twelve hour shifts all week and haven't had much free time. I haven't seen the videos, but I have studied the method and have had some success with it. Here is a link to a web page that outlines the procedure very well.
http://123eft.com/eft-trial.htm








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Hi all

Especially King411. Sorry to hear that your experience with HS has been so trying. You appear to have experienced every side affect that the people of HS list in their literature. Therefore I would suggest that it is working perfectly for you, just as it says in the literature.

Maybe your perception of HS is at fault. I am sure that you thoroughly studied the info pertaining to HS before you signed up! Because you have experienced a high level of overwhelm without much support then you are bound to feel negative at times. I commend you for giving HS a damned good go and then commenting from your own experience, unlike some negative types who seem to spend more time trawling through forums searching for excuses to ***** about the world and it's offerings with little hands on experience. (Beware of these people, they are down, and want to bring you down with them. Their favourite weapon is their false sympathy for you)

I have used HS for 18 months and like you have experienced overwhelm in all areas, mentally, physically and in relationships. Looking back though, I can see what a mountain I have climbed since stating HS. I no longer recognise the "old me"

One of the problems we HS users have is the lack of communication with other HS users, especially if like me you live outside of the US. HS stirs up a lot of crap and half the time we think it is only happening to us.

I now feel priveliged to be one of the few people on the planet to come into contact with HS. I really hope that you find it in yourself to continue with HS. If not then hopefully oneday, you can acknowledge what HS has done thus far for you was worth while.

Tono








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I liked Holosync, but what got me ticked off about it is that they have all these levels. I've been doing so sort of meditation for over 20 years. I felt I wasn't getting as much out of the initial level as I wanted. So I said I wanted to skip over a level and see what happens. No - No you can't do this, you won't get the proper results. What results, they don't make any claims. I concluded that they want to make you buy every level, that their policy on not skipping a level is motivated by $$ and nothing else.

Sedona, I got nothing out of. The guys voice on the tape was very irritating, and just kept on asking the same 3 or so questions over and over, with the assumption that your answer to each would be yes.






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The Story Behind The Levels - (It isn't just to keep you paying for the rest of your life.)

Hi Trader and all,

I started to post this response here, but I have decided because of the negative vibes posted here - and Pete's response to it - to start a new thread where I will explain the issue of Levels in Centerpointe's Holosync system.

[This message has been edited by livingsuccess (edited July 28, 2004).]






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Hello,
I'm new to your board and I found it when I did an internet search looking for info on Holosync. Like king411, my experience with the tapes, cds in my case, wasn't very good. I've only been using the tapes for about 4 months but I've experience major upheaval and discomfort. I'm told by the tele-counselor at Centerpointe that this reaction is normal and I should continue the program and I'll begin to reap the benefits. At this point I'm very skeptical and quite frankly, reluctant to continue. I have to function in daily life and I've had days when I couldn't. I purchased the program for many of the same reasons that most do, looking for peace of mind, spiritual growth, healing of old wounds but I've found none of the above. Maybe holosync is the right path for some but I'm finding that it isn't for me.






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quote:
Originally posted by Pete Bissonette:
I often read posts on the Forums here and I see you slamming your own lives, slamming each other, and slamming other companies.

Consider that how you do anything is how you do everything.

That this Forum is a mirror of your life when you post to it.


On this very forum you once stated, "I have absolutely zero respect for Dane Spotts." Several times people have asked you to explain why you made such a statement, and to my knowledge you have yet to do that. Is this congruent with your message here?

[This message has been edited by Orbital (edited August 17, 2004).]






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There is a difference between what I said and gratuitous






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Hello All,

I'm 23 years old. I've been reading a variety of boards talking mainly about the bad things of Holosync. I am interested in it, however, I don't have the money for it. For those who don't find it to be much good for them, I was wondering if you'd be willing to send me yours?

I can only ask. I'd like to try this out. And put my experience on boards whether it be good or bad.

I hear a lot of people talk about being overwhelmed. I do not know what each person means by that because they don't elaborate. But they do make it sound bad. The only thing I can think of is to kind of relate it to an alcoholic who goes into rehab. We all have issues we choose to bury deep down within us and maybe the HS is causing them to be uprooted and dealt with. Kind of like in order to advance you must deal with the past that's keeping you from fully operating in your potential. Like HS is a sort of rehab in it's first level(s). You know, I don't know. I've never used it.

I do know that not everything works for everyone. HS sounds like some sort of medicine, if you will. Just like aspirin didn't work for my minor headaches, just me praying it away caused it to go away and I haven't had a headache for over 5 years. There are risks to everything you do. Some result in good effects while others bad.

HS has a strong guarantee and if it doesn't work at least you can get a refund. So much for refund on aspirin that didn't work for me. Haha.

The amount of overwhelm may me due to just how much stuff a person has buried within themselves. Again I don't know. I'm just throwing out something that maybe be way off. Haha.

Anyway, I'm very interested in using HS, though and seeing for myself beyond the demo I listened to online. So if anyone has bought HS and hasn't asked for a refund already, I'd appreciate someone/anyone giving it to me free.

Please email me at gmgrecords03@yahoo.com

Thanks for reading,
H. Mitchell

p.s. - However, if the overwhelm is equivalent to one going into rehab then I'd recommend to keep at it. It'll eventually pay off. Depends on what you really want. Maybe you should combine other techniques with it to get the effect you want. On the other hand, if it's not equivalent to rehab, then may I have your HS that you bought if you still have it?








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Well I have found that when all of these wonderful tools are not working for me and I am in complete overwhelm, I hurt, my emotions are running wild, no body cares, I feel completely isolated in the universe.

I quit and go get drunk like any normal sailor would do. Then sober up and go back to it.

Fair wind and following sail.






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Exactly!






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well ive seen HS at work and to those who think that because of some discomfort that we must stop it
life that easy? not for a second

now i practice kundalini yoga and some people say the same sort of thing

fresh emotions and things get disrupted so that they may be refined or removed

kind of like while cleaning a fish tank
it gets very cloudy unless you take the water away

the water is our live because we have no buckets to put the fish in
thats why we have to stick it out

if it creates somekind of mind control or trance or negative effects then it is not worthy

other that those possibilities, which exist in anything, i cant see the problem
imagery is involved a lot so thats why ive not gone very far but as i said ive seen results even every early on






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and if you cannot deal with some of the more unfortunate things in life then try some confidence building or spiritual understanding

but if you are not expecting it then why are you doing self-improvement?

id rather call it self-movement

because i do not think we are changing a permanent entity but moving it forward going or deeper into that entity






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I believe I was trying to point out that when you get into an "Overwhelmed" type situation there is no point in resisting it. Your body shuts down because it is dealing with to much. It is like passing through a big storm, it won't last forever but you can get your butt kicked if you try to fight it. About all you can do is stick your nose into it and watch it go by. When it has gone it's way you can then go on with your charted course.

I like to do , what I call the Dali Lama thing, If something is wrong and we can fix it then there is nothing to worry about-we will just fix it, If something is wrong and we can't fix it then there is nothing to worry about-we can't fix it.

Facing overwhelm is one of those things you can't really fix. So relax, don't worry and let it pass. Resistance is futile as the Borg have pointed out.

Get a Mai Tai, some chips and pretend you are watching a old movie.

Jeff






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To Maya2222: Can you please tell me more about the knid of upheaval and discomfort you have experienced? I have a friend who is using this program, and I was considering it, but frankly dealing with our self-created sadness, resistance, or whatever else it may be might be better than suffering from other pain inflicted by a program that is supposed to help. Please help me decide.
quote:
Originally posted by maya2222:
Hello,
I'm new to your board and I found it when I did an internet search looking for info on Holosync. Like king411, my experience with the tapes, cds in my case, wasn't very good. I've only been using the tapes for about 4 months but I've experience major upheaval and discomfort. I'm told by the tele-counselor at Centerpointe that this reaction is normal and I should continue the program and I'll begin to reap the benefits. At this point I'm very skeptical and quite frankly, reluctant to continue. I have to function in daily life and I've had days when I couldn't. I purchased the program for many of the same reasons that most do, looking for peace of mind, spiritual growth, healing of old wounds but I've found none of the above. Maybe holosync is the right path for some but I'm finding that it isn't for me.








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Check out the end of this interview.
http://www.mindmachines.com/AVsJournal/article-AnE-InterviewMichaelHutchison.htm

This is very old news for some and was referenced earlier.

Entraining certain brainwaves and brain synchrony for extended periods of time every day might not be so healthy after all.

I was listening to Mind Wide Open by Steven Johnson and, interestingly enough, neurofeedback training to create a good state of attention for various mental tasks includes LOWERING the theta brain wave. Implied or outright stated (I don't exactly remember) is that the theta brainwave is associated with ADD type states. I found that fascinating because everyone was so pumped up over the theta brainwave. Entraining it everyday, however, seems to lead to a more scatterbrained state overall.

Who knows what delta entrainment over long periods of time may actually be doing to the brain?

Perhaps Harris's theory is less than half-baked? Maybe it isn't causing issues to be worked out but rather putting the brain into a state where these sorts of feelings of conflict and overwhelm are the natural response?

This could account for a lot of stuff that goes on regarding holosync. It may actually put your brain into a funk. Some people learn how to deal with it and thus are able to deal better with the other general funky states in life, while others are simply damaged by it. Just musing upon this.

But, anyway, forcing the brain into a state for prolonged periods of time each day may not be beneficial.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 20, 2005).]






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Babayada,

Thanks for posting a link to that article. Very interesting and enlightening.

Cheers






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Hi All,

I've been a regular user of Holosync for over a year and a ahlf now, currently finishing Awakening level 2.

Here's what I have to say : Holosync works. That's all ! It really works, whatever you do, however you do it (I used it for several months lying in bed and falling asleep over it and it still worked !)

I concurr : some of the effects of using Holosync are, as some have said here, very much akin to withdrawing from alcohol addiction. Actually what Holosync does is to break the myriad of micro-addictions that you have (addiction to behaviors, to people, to situations, etc...) and of course although most of the time it's a very pleasant process ("Gee, I DO feel better WITHOUT the need to yell at my wife whenever she mentions her male friends !"), sometimes it's really painfull, especially when you're on the verge of realizing that something unpleasant in your life is really of your own making...

At Centerpointe, they call this "Owerwhelm". I think it's quite accurate, although it could have simply be named "meditation stress" ! Meditation will provoke that sometimes. Stress is part of the process of growth (and Holosync meditation does force you to grow, wether you like it or not). Traditional meditation people know quite well about this phenomenon. Chinese Taoists (quoted by B K Frantzis in his book "The Great Stillness") call meditation "jumping in the dragon's mouth" : you will get bitten, and it will hurt ! To put it rudely, meditation is not for sissies ! And Holosync is meditation on steroïds. So it's bound sometimes to hurt bad.

Looking back at my year and a half of using Holosync, I'm beginning to see patterns.
At the start of each level, things were all rosy and nice : my daily meditation would make me so "high" I had energy aplenty for the rest of the day. Then later in the process I'd start to get antsy feelings, that would nag me all day long, and then depression, and then I'd be completely falling apart, like my whole life was a mess, feeling I'd better hang myself than go on with it all. At those times, my life would or would not objectively be particularly difficult (Hey, I got laid off while my wife made plans to leave me, at a time when I was living abroad in a VERY foreign country ! That was a tough time ! But I also got terrible overwhelm at times whan all was rosy, so there's no real rule). And then someday things would clear up, and I'd be looking at mself like from a higher standpoint, and realizing : "Hey, it's not that bad. It's just a situation, and I know how to handle it.". After that I'd be back in my pleasant "high" state, and the cycle would repeat.
At other times, I would get the feeling that thoses CDs were really a waste of time, and why bother with them. Discouragement is another form of overwhelm (at least for me. Every one has one or several "prefered" ways of feeling stress).
This could go on and on, until I got the feeling the CDs were "not working" anymore. That's the signal that it's time to go to another level. At that time, I just felt good, and comparing my state with how I was before doing that level of the program, I'd rejoice at the obvious progress I'd made. Then I start a new level, and I get some different (deeper) crap to deal with, in a similar pattern involving temporary stress, anguish, and discouragement (although I do notice that it gets easier with each level).

Why am I telling you all about this ? Not because I'm a realy very interesting person, but to illustrate one thing : I have (and I believe most Holosync users have) gone through everything that you're describing. The pain, the doubt, the freaking out, and all ! And that there were rewards at the end of the ordeal !

What kept me going on despite the incomfort and pain ? The fact that Centerpointe people very accurately described beforehand (over the phone, and in their support material) everything that could happen to me in the course of using Holosync, and they gave me simple ways of helping out all those unpleasant feelings. That helped me trust them and gave me the courage to go through the whole thing.
Now I know the pattern, and although Level 2 has been somwhat painful, knowing what was happening made it a lot easier than Level 1 (which, I admit, was gruesome for me, far worse that Awakening Prologue). With that experience, I can now see things coming, and make more readily use of the simple solutions Centerpointe people pointed out to me te make things easier (breathing exercices, artistic expression, sports, and most of all practicing the "witness" attitude).

Meditation and growth are not easy. Centerpointe doesn't pretend that their Holosync Program makes either a stroll in the park. What the program does is make meditation and growth FOOLPROOF. That's the value that they sell : follow the instructions (and they're really simple), and there's NO WAY you can blotch it. Compare that to the extreme difficulty of learning traditional meditation, or of applying succesfully most self-growth methods ! Especially when you're a person with extremely low self esteem and sense of personnal capacity to succeed, like I was before starting Holosync, and like I believe most people who come to Holosync tend to be.

SO I'd like to say to all those who bought Holosync, and think they've fallen for a scam : "Stick to it, listen daily to your CDs! Procrastinating wont make the process easier, but it'll make it definitely slower, and you'll stay in the rut longer than you really need to. Re-read the support material they hand out, and call their Hotline if you really need some immediate relief. IT IS WORKING, YOU WILL REAP THE BENEFITS"

One thing I like about Centerpointe is that although their marketing is quite agressive (but hey, I've seen much worse lots of places on the Internet !) they'll never push you to purchase a level of the program before you've REALLY finished the previous one. They really want you to get value from what you buy.
By the way, if you think their marketing has something fishy, consider that Holosync is a VERY UNUSUAL product, so it's really crucial for them to get A LOT of attention from potential buyers before they make a decision. I myself hesitated for 2 full years before buying Awakening Prologue (their first, introductory, level in the program). Now I kick kick myself for not having entered the program earlier. I am so much happier today compared to a year and a half ago, that I'm just mad at myself for having missed the opportunity to be today over three years into the program, and probably light-years away from where I am now !

Finally, on a technical note : someone wrote that Holosync is taking you into Theta, and that Theta brainwave rythm is associated with ADD, so it might not be wise to delve too much there, as you might get ADD yourself !
First, Theta has been associated with ADD, this is true, but Theta is also associated with emotionnal healing, creative insight, and many other positive aspects.
The problem with Theta in the case of ADD is that the children try to use theis brainwave state in situations where it's sub-optimal. But Theta itself is not a "problematic" brainwave state, quite the contrary.
Second, let's put things straight : the basic information in the argument is wrong. Holosync desn't put you in prolonged Theta. Actually it goes much deeper, into deep Delta (Frequencies of deep sleep, brain restoration, neural growth, and natural production of DHEA and growth Hormone to name a few).
Also experience has shown (my personnal experience and the collective experience of Holosync users, archived by Centerpointe) that staying in prolonged Delta (or any state for that matter, including Theta) has naver made anyone stay "stucked" in that state. Otherwise since Delta is the frequency of deep sleep, Holosync users would never wake up and stay in a permanent coma ! This has not been observed, and surely if there was ever one such case reported, Centerpointe would have gotten severely sued, and we wouldn't miss having heard about it (lol).


I'll finish with a word about the absence of communication between Holosync users.
At first I wondered why Centerpointe didn't set up a Forum for the participants in their program to exchange views. I thought it would be a good thing, and that it was a shame that they didn't do it. Now with some experience, I have come to think that it was wise of them not to set up a forum. Beginners would have flooded the forum with their doubts, their angst, all of their bad feelings, as we see in too many forums. Using Holosync makes a lot of crap come out, so inevitably the forum would have quickly become a very unpleasant place. Part of the process of personnal growth is learning to take responsibility for what you feel and experience, and stop blaming it on outside events, other people, the government, or the meditation CDs one listens to. The CDs provoke the emergence of e lot of stuff, but the stuff itself comes from the listerner in the first place. To get rid of it, paradoxically, one has to accept it. People who go on a forum and yell out their pain and discontent, who blame the CDs or the company that sold it to them, are not in the process of taking responsibility. SInce there is no forum, if they want to yell at someone, they'll have to call the Centerpointe Hotline, and this will give the Staff at Centerpointe a chance to help them, at a moment when they clearly need it the most.

All in all, I think they're doing it the right way.

That was my (pretty long) 2 cents. I hope it helps clarify the issue a little and provides some usefull info to those who are lookinbg for it.

Be all well,

Erwan

PS : I am not a part of Centerpointe, or in any way affiliated to them. I will not benefit in any way if any reader of this post decides to go for the program, except if he decides to let me know about it, in which case I will feel good for knowing that I helped someone make a wise decision.







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Reread the post.

I did not say that the holosync method puts you into a theta brainwave. I said, later in the post, that the delta brainwave may not be so beneficial either, and it was there I was referring to holosync.

Theta waves are associated with a lot of things, yes. It is a wild and wooly sort of thing as I see it. I do not think we know enough about the brain and how these brainwaves work and how to entrain what parts of the brain in order to make a truly useful technology. The activity in the brain is very dynamic.

I was not saying that the brain was going to be stuck in theta. Prolonged entrainment in the theta state MAY, I think, not be beneficial for concentration throughout the day. It may make it easier for people to go into hairbrained states, let's say. I don't know of any studies, but in retrospect, I do notice that the more foggy periods of my life were those in which I was using entrainment technology (for theta) quite a bit. So there may be something to it.

Also, what's all this garbage about traditional meditation being so hard? What? You need a PhD. in meditation science in order to do it "right"?

I don't know what kind of meditation you've been trying to do.

Being mindful is a simple practice. I am not saying it's easy, but it is incredibly simple.

Now, if we're talking about advanced spiritual progress such as the kind Frantzis talks about in discussing the water method, ok, here were getting into different territory.

I sincerely doubt that holosync brings you to the same places that tutelage under taoist master will bring you, sorry. That process is advanced and subtle and obviously takes a lifetime of dedication.

I strongly believe that any benefits holosync gives you can be achieved in a better and more balanced way through a half hour or so of mindfulness everyday. And that really isn't that hard at all, really. It also teaches lessons that the purely passive method of holosync probably won't. And it's free in terms of money if not in dedication and effort.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 20, 2005).]






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Babayada,

Thanks for correcting me on some points, I did oversee a few points in the posts I mentionned.

You appear to have read BK Frantzis. He's one of my favorite authors and a person I respect very much. I have personally trained with two of his direct students in Chi Gung and basic taoist meditation, and What they teach is very powerfull.
Yet there is a need for a strong dedication to keep practicing Frantzis' material, and not everyone has it.
Using Holosync makes meditation both much easier and more powerfull. For people who like me began with issues of low self-confidence and very dysfunctionnal mental strategies in the eveluation of one's practice, Holosync is absolutely invaluable in that it gives one confidence that the meditation WILL be done right, whatever one does.
I do think that in order to get the most of Holosync, it is better to have some background in traditional meditation, and/or NLP or Self-Hypnosis.
The Holosync technology is a very powerfull meditation tool, it's safe (no-one has gone crazy using it to date, or died out of using it, or suffered any brain damage...) and the support Centerpointe gives is very good.
Also note what I said on another forum : for me the high price is not heresy, from a marketing standpoint it's really rational, and it helps selling more and getting the participants to be more dedicated.

Finally, let me tell you that before going into the program, I read almost every existing bit of information regarding Binaureal beats that could be found (at least on the internet, and that's already a lot). I made my own custom BB CDs and played a lot with them. (By the way, I got some pretty interesting results by checking my aura on a machine that reads Kirlian signatures. Remind me to write about that in another post !). Finally, although I was using some professional level software, I wasn't really satisfied with the CDs I made, and always found the Meditation experience to be very deep (deeper ever than what I'd get from Taoist practices learnt from lineage trainers) the sound itself was very irritating to my ears, and that made the experience sub-optimal for me.
I decided to purchase Awakening Prologue, and was amazed at the quality of both the soundtrack themselves, and of the support material. Centerpointe CDs sounded SOO much better than what I could create myself, and they gave really usefull advice on how to make the best of it, things I never would have figured out by myself, or at least not before getting years of experience. ANd their support helps one not to get discouraged, which can happen allong any path.
So for me it was all well worth the price.


Now I made the decision to purchase the whole program. All in all it cost me 1900 Euro. I got 10 years (or more) of steady growth, for the price of 25 sessions with a therapist, which is roughly 2 years of therapy.
Well I was in therapy for some time in the past, and it got me nowhere close to where I'm now, so I think that for me, the 1900 Euro are allready amortized. Now all the rest of what I'm getting is free bonus !

Anyway, the crux of the matter is that I choose to view this subject in a positive way that reinforces my well-being and empowers me for the future.
You're free to do it the other way around if you choose to, but by focusing on what you don't like in life, you'll just get more things you don't like !

I'd recommend you just give Holosync another try.
Cheap secondhand CDs are available on eBay if you don't want to spend the money, so there's no reason to be stopped by the cost. And you might get your kick by ripping off centerpointe in such a way.
Also if you're annoyed at the idea of having the affirmations of someone else on the supra-liminal part of the secondhand soundtracks you buy, I'll give you a trick. The supra-liminals are Freqency modulated on the 15500 Hz frequency. The peak in intensity is clearly visible if you do a spectral analysis of the soundtracks. To get those off the sountracks, you can either do a low-pass filter set at 15000 Hz, using any good sound engineering software out there on the market,, and then re-burn your CDs (and re-sell the originlas again !), or even more simply turn the sountracks to MP3. The Frequencies above 5000 Hz are all filtered out in MP3, and the frequencies that create the Binaureal Beat still remain, so the soundtracks are still completely effective (and there again you can re-sell your CDs, so in the end it costs you nearly nothing).

ANd try and have a look at Bill Harris book Thresholds of the mind (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972178007/qid=1106336008/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/002-7790369-8403239?v=glance&s=books). It recaps nearly everything the guys in Centerpointe's support staff can tell you if you're stuck, so you'll have almost the full benefit of the program for really a fraction of the price (except for the personnal support, which I did find pretty helpfull)

Why dont'cha give it a try ?
might be fun !

Cheers,

Erwan






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In my opinion, holosync is a scam. Anything that proposes you take an hour each day to listen to tapes and then tell you it could take forever to get results is suspicious at best.

Also note how they are always mailing "deals" to buy the whole package at a discount. If it was so great, why would that be an ongoing practice?

I bought the beginning package and gave it about 2 full months with no results whatsoever. Of course, they say that is not enough time. I was "resisting". No, I was BORED. I can get more relaxed doing self hypnosis.

Having had depression problems, etc., I tried this because of some good review I had seen on it. I am sorry I did it and would not recommend it to anyone.






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Mrs Pock,

The more things that you try the more likely you are to find something that works well for you. There are so many different methods and paths that lead to the same place ultimately. You probably got your money back for holosync so, aside from some time wasted, it was at the very least a learning experience.

For the other people that have experienced heavy overwhelm using holosync I would recommend finding a technique like qigong, reiki, yoga, etc to go along with the program. Often we take growth steps that the mind is gungho about but that the body just isn't ready for. Balancing out your Shen using Qigong should dramatically reduce the overwhelm or whatever method you choose. We are not just heads we also have bodies and there is a great deal we can learn from the body.







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Hello Mr Spock,

In my opinion, after 18 months of use, Holosync DOES work, but it takes some time, although far less than any other method I know.

If your doctor tells you to take some kind of medication for 4 weeks to cure some chronic condition you have, and after 2 weeks your condition is unchanged and you decide to quit the pills, don't blame the doctor or the pills. Give it a fair try BEFORE you criticize. Centerpointe states that Awakening Prologue takes a minimum of 4 months to do its full effect, so if one quits after 2 months only, it's unfair to claim it doesn't work !

Do yourself a favor and give it a fair try !

Erwan






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I strongly agree with what weight39doug says.

BK Frantzis, an esteemed teacher of Taoist Meditation and CHi Gung, syas that ChiGung was originally designed by Taoists as an introduction to meditation, as both a way to introduce the concepts to the learner and a way to prepare his body and energy system to the rigors of going through the meditation experience.

Bill Harris of Centerpointe strongly recommends looking into Yoga to regulate the excess of emotionnal energy that can come from meditating with Holosync.

When I get too much overwhelm from my meditation, I use a Chi Gung Method taught by BK Frantzis, called "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body". Even in its most basic form it's extremely effective at re-harmonizing excess energy. I recommend it heartily !

Hope this helps !

Erwan






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I hope to contribute something here to help people understand what Holosync is, and how one can easiely, scientifically and legally create the his/her own sound files that contain the same technowlogy used in Holosync and Hemi-Sync and any binaural beat based brain entrainment products.

First, before argueing about whether Holosync is a scam, I suggest those who are not familiar with what goes behind the scene of Holosync to go read about the original paper on "binaural beat", and the brain entrainment research papers, available free in hemi-sync.com (you must do you own leg work, I am not going to spoon feed here, it's all in the website and its links).

Once you understand what it is, and you would like to give it a try, there are a few options, one is to get an inexpensive product that uses the same technology, don't be brian washed to believe that only the more expensive products like Holosync or Hemi-sync are the "real" ones, if you understand what the technology really is, you know they cannot fool you with their own words, because they are use the same stuff! One such product can be found at http://www.mercola.com/article/neuro_technologies.htm
(I am not related in any of the websites I mentioned here)

There is a free program on the web that you can use to create your own binaural beat sound files, here is the link for a Yahoo forum that has good information about the program and its uses: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bwgen/

Hope this helps. Personally I have tried Hemi-sync and Holosync and home made beats, I am not getting the noteble benifits like those who claimed they have, but I didn't have bad side effects either. May be they did help in ways I cannot tell. Give yourself a try to see if they are right for you, now that you know it can be done for free!

Fear Not! Peace and Love to all!







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I am on the holosync program. Two years ago when everybody started talking about the Awakening Minds = Insights CD - I bought that one two.

From my experience it is no match to holosync. It has also become very quite around the Awakening Mind program.
So I guess it was just a "one nite stand".

Cheers,








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Please refer to my other posts, sorry I used non-constructive comments in this original post.

peace and love to all

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 02, 2005).]






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Fear Not
With respect you are mistaken. Holosync is a very different product to Hemi-Sync. Bill Harris is not a scam artist. I do think he overcharges for his product. However, his product does work very effectively. If its not for you fair enough, but personal attacks are not constructive. Don't worry about anybody on this forum being conned. There is a lot of knowledge here.







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quote:
Originally posted by NickR:
Fear Not
With respect you are mistaken. Holosync is a very different product to Hemi-Sync. Bill Harris is not a scam artist. I do think he overcharges for his product. However, his product does work very effectively. If its not for you fair enough, but personal attacks are not constructive. Don't worry about anybody on this forum being conned. There is a lot of knowledge here.


Thank you NickR. I recognize from your other posts that you are a respectable contributor to this forum, with same respect I removed my harsh wordings about Holosync from my original post.

Since you have made the comment that "Holosync is a very different product to Hemi-Sync", may I ask for your insights about what those differences are and what made you believe these difference are relevent in effectiveness in barin entrainment audio products, are they (the differences) faith based or that there are scientific evidence such differences produce more effective intented results in brain entrainment, or, the differences are just personal subjectives (which can be very powerful and effective too).

Thanks and peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 02, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by Erwan:
Hello Mr Spock,

In my opinion, after 18 months of use, Holosync DOES work, but it takes some time, although far less than any other method I know.


You know, I didn't find HS that helpful, either. Pleasant to listen to, but all in all, I've found that regular meditation seems to do a lot for me. I still have the cds--who knows, maybe I just wasn't "ready" for them yet.








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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:


Since you have made the comment that "Holosync is a very different product to Hemi-Sync", may I ask for your insights about what those differences are and what made you believe these difference are relevent in effectiveness in barin entrainment audio products, are they (the differences) faith based or that there are scientific evidence such differences produce more effective intented results in brain entrainment, or, the differences are just personal subjectives (which can be very powerful and effective too).

Thanks and peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 02, 2005).]


The difference between holosync and hemi-sync, is the same as the difference between one hemisync product and another. Namely, that there are different frequencies and carrier tones on the CD. If you visit the Brainwave generator groups you can see the exact differences.

If you question whether there is a meaningful difference between holosync and hemisync then you are also asking if there is a meaningful difference between one hemisync Cd and another -- if its all the same then why would Hemisync bother to produce more than a single product?

As far as scientific evidence, I consult scientific evidence only in the preliminary phase of deciding whether or not to buy a product, and possibly as a check against my initial experience in using the product.

The product's value is determined by the concrete and tangible results I get in my own life. (And yes, when I am testing something I always eliminate the use of other products to avoid any confusion.) Once the changes are there in my own life, I have no need to consult an outside source for validation.







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Thanks Garic. I am well aware of the lower carrier frequency claim, I don't know if Nick is talking about this or other differences that I am not aware of.

If lower carrier frequencies made Holosync more efficient, all one has to do is to encode his own cds with such frequencies using brainwave generator software. Of all the companies in brainwave entrainment business, Holosync seems to be the only one make the claim that lower carrier frequencies are superior, for heaven's sake let's assume that claim is true, why can't people just make their own cds using these lower carrier frequencies, without paying the high price to Holosync? Why there are those still insist after listening to products from all major producers of brainwave entrainment products and from BWGEN encoded cds, that Holosync is more special? and why NONE of the Holysync clients who completed the advanced level of listening come out testify that they indeed have achieved the promised results? The only one person who did come out, (SuzyQ?), was not all that positive about Holosync to say the least.

It also bothers me that all of you regular credible contributors seem to all defending Holosync, some with initial negative view but very quickly (in two weeks of listening according to the psot) changed their mind, Alex, who is normally neutral and objective, come to Bill's defense as well, this all coincides with the new lease of LSC CD'S that use the Holosync encoding, I wonder if there is pressure from the top to promote the Holosync now, just a thought, a reasonable thought.

Peace and love to all.






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
Thanks Garic. I am well aware of the lower carrier frequency claim, I don't know if Nick is talking about this or other differences that I am not aware of.

If lower carrier frequencies made Holosync more efficient, all one has to do is to encode his own cds with such frequencies using brainwave generator software. Of all the companies in brainwave entrainment business, Holosync seems to be the only one make the claim that lower carrier frequencies are superior, for heaven's sake let's assume that claim is true, why can't people just make their own cds using these lower carrier frequencies, without paying the high price to Holosync? .


Thats why I've been giving out the "recipe" for holosync on this and other forums for the last three years. Because the low-carrier frequncy technology has been effective in my own case and I want to give others the opportunity to try it without any outlay of cash.

I have no interest whatsoever in either defending or promoting Bill Harris as a person, or Centerpointe as a company. My only interest as far as holosync goes, is in promoting a discussion between people who are sincerely interested in determining the effectiveness of the low carrier frequency technology and its potential usefulness in their own lives.
Others on this forum seem extremely interested and even addicted to these more "political" kinds of discussions however.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 02, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
Thanks Garic. I am well aware of the lower carrier frequency claim,

I knew you were aware of it, I was simply re-stating it at the beginning in order to make the point.








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I can assure you that I am under no pressure to advocate or not advocate holosync.

I am merely stating the opinions based on my experience.

I think you have some good points to make, Fear Not, but please, do not insult me by implication. I am not mindless or brainwashed. I am in general a quite skeptical person.

I have just come to different conclusions than you.

I don't know if you've mentioned it, but have you tried holosync and compared it to other products yourself?







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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:

It also bothers me that all of you regular credible contributors seem to all defending Holosync, some with initial negative view but very quickly (in two weeks of listening according to the psot) changed their mind, Alex, who is normally neutral and objective, come to Bill's defense as well, this all coincides with the new lease of LSC CD'S that use the Holosync encoding, I wonder if there is pressure from the top to promote the Holosync now, just a thought, a reasonable thought.

Peace and love to all.


I have always been a fan of entrainment technology. I was saying. While there is no "objective proof" that entrainment works neither was there any objective proof that car will work as transportation over 120 years ago when it was invented. It was purely "subjective" experience back then. It's not until there are enough people using it that we start to collect objective data.

As to whether Centerpointe is still the best. I don't know.

Paul has often used his Paraliminals with a light and sound device. He knew it makes the experience more interesting. In response to the many requests. Adding an entrainment sound track to the Paraliminals seemed a logical approach while keeping the cost down.

Alex






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Thanks Alex. My reference of "supporting data" was referring to Bill Harris' outragious claims of the benifits of Holosync CD's, not about the potential benifits of brainwave entrainment, and I am in agreement with you on your view that the data about the health benifits (or not) on entrainment will come later, but I also maintain that Bill Harris' claims about the unproven effects on his commercial products are irresponsible and should be considered a FRAUD!

Babayada, yes, I have used Hemi-sync, Holosync, Insights, and my homemade GWGEN cds. I like the calming effects of Holosync's rian chimes, and I have been meditating for many years. The natural sound of rain by itself can be calming, personally I have not experienced any "meditation like state" induced by brainwave entrainment products, except for the calmness, which I also get from listening to pure natural sounds cds without brainwave entrainment encoding. Beliefs has a lot to do with the outcome, I gather those who believe in Bill Harris' claims are naturally more likely to create the perceived outcomes they expect. You know sometimes you see people being con-ed and manipulated by sharks you just feel sorry for them and want to do something to help, that's all it is. peace!






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
...but I also maintain that Bill Harris' claims about the unproven effects on his commercial products are irresponsible and should be considered a FRAUD!

Or, maybe it just didn't work as well for you? I prefer my regular meditation, but I have heard many say how they love the effects of HS.

I don't think it's fair to call someone a fraud when, in fact, it might be just your own reaction to the product. I think these things are more personal.

Since we are all unique, one size doesn't necessarily fit all. It didn't do much for me, yet one of my friends raves on about it. Obviously, it worked very well for her. She feels she got her money's worth, and more. My disks collect dust. Even so--that doesn't mean they won't work for me some time in the future, so for now, I hold onto them. Eventually, I might give them to another friend, who knows?

However, I do not feel as though I've been "taken" or defrauded. I just feel that I found a product that didn't work for me, like that ghastly yellow dress I thought was the cats meow last year. It was the real deal, but just not the "deal" for me.








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quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne:

I don't think it's fair to call someone a fraud when, in fact, it might be just your own reaction to the product. I think these things are more personal.


Thanks for your reply. Sorry for my bad English and typos, I am not an English speaker, Whether an advertisement is fraud or not has nothing to do with my personal experience with the product, it has nothing to do with your personal experience either, it's all about the fairness, objectivity, and the law. Here are some excerts from FTC ruling regarding a similar claims for brainwave entrainment cds and related devices by a compny (Zygon) in 1996:

....is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, do forthwith cease and desist from representing, in any manner, directly or by implication, that the use of such product or program can or will have any effect on the user's:

A. Health or bodily structure or function, including but not limited to sleep; weight, bodyfat content, or body shape or tone; immune system; eyesight or night vision; stress; or jet lag; or

B. Smoking behavior,

unless at the time of making such representation, respondents possess and rely upon competent and reliable scientific evidence that substantiates such representation. For purposes of this Order, "competent and reliable scientific evidence" shall mean tests, analyses, research, studies, or other evidence based on the expertise of professionals in the relevant area, that has been conducted and evaluated in an objective manner by persons qualified to do so, using procedures generally accepted in the profession to yield accurate and reliable results.

...is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, do forthwith cease and desist from representing, in any manner, directly or by implication, that the use of such product or program can or will have any effect on the user's cognitive or mental functions or skills, including but not limited to reading, vocabulary, learning, foreign language, verbal or math skills; intelligence or I.Q. or that of the user's children; attention or concentration levels; or memory, unless at the time of making such representation, respondents possess and rely upon competent and reliable evidence, which when appropriate must be competent and reliable scientific evidence, that substantiates such representation.

...is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, do forthwith cease and desist from making any representation, in any manner, directly or by implication:

A. Regarding the performance, benefits, efficacy, or safety of any food, drug, or device, as those terms are defined in Section 15 of the Federal Trade Commission Act, 15 U.S.C. § 55, or dietary supplement, unless, at the time of making such representation, respondents possess and rely upon competent and reliable scientific evidence that substantiates such representation.

B. Regarding the performance, benefits, efficacy or safety of any product or service (other than a product or service covered under Part III.A herein), unless, at the time of making such representation, respondents possess and rely upon competent and reliable evidence, which when appropriate must be competent and reliable scientific evidence, that substantiates such representation.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
[QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for my bad English and typos, I am not an English speaker, [b]Whether an advertisement is fraud or not has nothing to do with my personal experience with the product, it has nothing to do with your personal experience either, it's all about the fairness, objectivity, and the law.

I thought your language was just fine, but I'm not sure your conclusions about CP are valid.

Just the other day I bought a music CD by a well known artist. On the CD case and in magazine ads for this CD, I was promised that I'd be "swept off my feet" by the beauty of this music. In point of fact, it reminded me so much of "Muzak" and dentists' offices, that it gave me a headache.

I would not accuse the artist or his publicists of "fraud." Actually, many people would agree with them--and they will buy more of his CDs. Because they hear something I do not, their spirits will soar (as the CD cover said) and these CDs will do a lot of good in the world.

I see the CP products in the same way. For my friend, they were as advertised. For me, well, they sounded nice, but I prefer regular meditation. Just my taste--and just my choice. I would hope the feds stay out of this one, since these CDs obviously do help many people.

You do believe in allowing people to make up their own minds and make their own choices, right?






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quote:

You do believe in allowing people to make up their own minds and make their own choices, right? [/B]

Absolutely! But I also believe in fairness and business ethics. Don't promise any benifits and effects that are unproven, instead, disclose to the public that the claims are only speculations, personal opinions and personal believes, not the facts or truth. One-sided claims are not about "allowing people to make up their own minds and make their own choices", right?

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
disclose to the public that the claims are only speculations, personal opinions and personal believes, not the facts or truth. One-sided claims are not about "allowing people to make up their own minds and make their own choices", right?

(edited February 03, 2005).]


And you obviously feel that way about Michael Hutchison's claims as well, right?








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quote:
Originally posted by garics:
And you obviously feel that way about Michael Hutchison's claims as well, right?


You are right, I am, and I am still lsitening to binaural beat encoded cds. I don't know if Hutchson's claims are valid, but unless I have evidence to prove him wrong, I am not going make any judgements.

Hutchson "alerts" people of the potential risk of barinwave entrianment, based on his field expertise and personal experience, Bill Harris "promises" something that are unproven, please note the differences and be objective.

I make my personal choice to subject myself to this potential risk by continue to list to binaural beat cds, I made the informed choice, and I want to help others to be informed as well. peace!

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
Absolutely! But I also believe in fairness and business ethics. Don't promise any benifits and effects that are unproven, instead, disclose to the public that the claims are only speculations, personal opinions and personal believes, not the facts or truth. One-sided claims are not about "allowing people to make up their own minds and make their own choices", right?

Actually, I think CP has done some research on their products--if I remember correctly, it's been published. So their claims are not entirely unfounded--as are Michael Hutchinson's about brain damage, at least so far until we see more documentation.

Another thing: you seem terribly upset and bitter about the CP products. Instead of letting this anger and bitterness rule your life (or at least your posts here), I wonder if it might be more constructive if you investigated the possibility of a refund from CP, or failing that, selling your set on eBay or elsewhere? Many of these companies, including Learning Stragegies, do have a money-back guarantee if you don't like their products--I'm not sure if CP does this, but you could check.








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perhaps too much time has passed to be of any help to king411. but as results occur along a continuum of effects depending on the individual, this represents something toward the negative extreme.

all doubts and disappointments are well spoken here. and i could spool reams of rational. but in brief:

first, one has to understand the idea of grounding and holding the space once change is happening. this translates to preparation work in the emotional, physical and psychic body. then the energy body has a home.

for example, qi gong and so many many other physical disciplines have been for a long time both the means to gradual change and the grounding. simple but genuine technologies.

now, with cymatic (sound entrainment) shortcuts, one should make time to continue moving the body and grounding the neurological shifts in the cellular recording device (your body).

this is just pragmatics, not meant to be fancy mumbo jumbo. even if you never buy another cd, subliminals and brain cd's are not deleterious to human evolution. the data tells us what is being affected. but it is up to the individual regarding the effect.

poor king411 and others were/are already on loose ground prior to using the cd's.

a shaman's apprentice can fail. a yogi can hurt themself. a mystic can awaken then lose all gains and wonder why. - preparation and grounding. anchoring the new position of neurology and awareness.

i have used sound technology for fifteen years but always with movement. daily. and nutrition. daily. and regular sitting meditation to settle, quiet, integrate. any less of a formula is reckless now. the technology is just too invasive.

not everyone will be able to use this method successfully. some old, low cost tapes still bake my cookies better than expensive cd's.

on our own, bad results just mean we have to back off and take another approach. we are a non-shaman culture. screwed, basically, but for these self-serve experimentations.

still, our generation must go for it because it is part of our time. pause and intuition go a long way to help choose what to try and how to use it.

when are we whole, happy, new, at awakening level 4? level 15? what do we do with the change at level 2, outgrow it and hunger for the next fix ? this is not the path it seems to be. a progressively bigger hammer is not the way to build a bigger or better house.

some persons may want and NEED to go all the way. others may not or even cannot. 'why' is more important than 'how far'.

-Larkin









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That was a good message, Larkin.

I like your perspective.







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Hi All,

One thing I notice, is that Holosync seems to give excellent results on most people, and none on some.

Maybe the problem is that the Holosync program is "one size fits all", using the same starting carrier frequencies for everyone. Maybe the beginning carrier frequency they use (140 Hz in Awakening Prologue) is OK for 95% of the population, but is not OK for the last 5%...

It's like medicine : most prescription medicine has the standard effect on the majority of the population, but there is always a percentage of people who need an more massive dose tha the standard prescription, or a different drug altogether, simply because there are variations in body types and individuals'intenal chemistry.

I got tested several times on a device that made measurements of the body's energy field (some call it the "Aura") on the fingertips of the hands and feet. It's similar to, but slightly more elaborate and precise than, Kirlian photography. It was used by my chiropractor/accupuncturist. He used it to determine what energy imbalances there were in my body (and it was pretty accurate, too !). In making the measurement, he had to turn a knob that adjusted for the vibration frequency of the body's energy field. It was like focusing a lens : when the frequency was off my body's frequency, the image of the Aura would be blurry, but with the correct adjustment, the image turned very sharp. I was surprised that there wasn't any preset frequency, but my chiropractor explained to me that A HUMAN BEING'S BASE FREQUENCY IS AN INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTIC, just like your size or weight, so there's no one setting that could be good for everyone.
This intrigued me, and since I was experimenting a lot with brainwave entrainment (I hadn't bought Holosync yet at that time) I aksed him if we could try a few things. Since we were quite close, and the idea intrigued him as well, he accepted to do several mesurments before and after using Brainwave entrainment CDs.

There were two results :

1) After listening to half an hour of Theta waves (7,5 Hz), my "Aura", which was, like any normal person's, full of spikes and dents before the listening session, had become all smooth and regular, leaving only some deeper dents (corresponding to my long-temr health issues) which were also smoothed out. The effect was the same as that of doing 1 hour of CHi Gung, or a full session of energy re-balancing by accupuncture (something he charges 75Euro for).
So conclusion 1 :
Theta Brainwave entrainment has measureable positive effects on the body's energy field, which is itself a good measure of one's overall health and well-being.

Result 2 was more surprising...

2) Before and after listening to the Brainwave entrainment CD, my Body's base energy vibration frequency had completely changes.
Before, it was something around 340 Hz, and after, it was 185 Hz. This was almost exactly the carrier frequency I had used for my Brainwave entrainment CD...
This was quite a surprise : sound listened to in earphones had had a direct influence on my whole body’s energy field (not only the ears or the brain).
Conclusion 2 is : there is a clear interaction between the carrier frequency we listen to, and the body’s energy filed.

Holosync states clearly that the lower the carrier frequency, the more powerful the effect on the system (that’s why they want to make it gradual, level by level : so as not to « blast people out of their shoes » with lower carrier frequencies right from the start)

The problemn in this reasoning, is that some people might have an individual carrier frequncy that is so low to start with, that the carrier frequency of Awakening Prologue (140 Hz) mightnot be enough for them. Such a case would be quite exceptionnal, but not improbable. The end result would be like giving a 200 pound person a dose of medication low enough to be safe for a 50 pound child. I twill be safe, might have some effect, but it won’t really do the job. For that specific person, the dose would have to be quadrupled. In the case of the person with a low personal body energy vibration frequency, If my reasonning is correct, the right thing would be to start the program from a deeper level, with a lower carrier frequency right away.

I’ve read for example in science reviews, that Chi Gung grandmasters, when they « projected chi energy through their hands », were actually producing inaudible vibrations at 70Hz. (These vibrations were inaudible, although they were measured through a microphone. This seems contradictory at first, since 70 Hz is a perfectly audible frequency, it’s in the lower end of the male human voice. Since a microphone is basically made up of a magnet attached to a spring on one side and a membrane on the other side, it is not only capable of measuring air vibration through the membrane, but also variations in the ambiant electric or magnetic field, by direct effect on the magnet.)

The conclusion is that these Chi-Gung grandmasters were channeling 70 Hz electric or magnetic waves through their bodies. This is not only much lower than the average 200-400 Hz frequency for the body’s energy vibration frequency usually measured in most people (according to my chiropractor’s experience on his « aura » machine), but it’s also much lower than Holosync’s Awakening Prologue Frequency (140 Hz). Such a chi-gung grandmqster would probably benefit from using Brainwave entrainment CDs ONLY if the CD’s carrier frequency was lower than 70 Hz. I am currently using Awakening Level 2, whose carrier frequency is 100 Hz. I suppose that to get below 70 Hz one wouldhave to use Purification level 1 or 2…

FINAL CONCLUSION :
The problem with the Holosync Solution program is that it’s a mail order program, a « one size fits all solution ». While this is probably OK for 95 or so persent of the population, there will be people, even with no previous meditation experience, who will have a body’s energy vibration frequency lower than 140, and for these people the beginning levels of Holosync would be insufficient. In those exceptionnal cases, Holosync would have to find a may to measure which deeper level would be appropriate to start with.


I hope this (long) post was of interest to you all.

Cheers !

Erwan







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Interesting, Erwan...

If your conclusion is correct, then one would have to have their "aura" evaluated in order to determine what carrier frequencies would be the best beginning points?

Also - have you looked at Neuro-Programmer in order to set the particular frequencies you desire?






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Erwan,

Great post. I think your commnets about the "one-size-fits-all" nature of the starting carrier in Prologue is exactly right.

Back in 1998 or 99 when I was on the Purification Levels, I got a letter from Bill pitching the Centerpointe program to new people. In this letter, he basically stated to the potential customer, that if they tried Prologue and didn't feel anything (perhaps due to having a background in formal meditation etc.), that he would send them a deeper level until they felt they were being challenged by the technology.
My impression at the time, was that he was offering to do this free of charge -- in other words, you could just send back Prologue and get Level 1, perhaps paying only the difference in cost between the two (although this was not made completely clear in the letter).
To me, this seems like an apporpriate solution to the problem you are describing....I wonder if Centerpointe Institue has since renounced this policy?






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quote:
Originally posted by Erwan:

One thing I notice, is that Holosync seems to give excellent results on most people, and none on some.


There is just so much emphasis on brain-wave entrainment but I would argue that coherence is more important. It does matter what you entrain to. Physiological Coherence is defined as


  • High heart rhythm coherence ((sine wave-like rhythmic pattern)
  • Increased parasympathetic activity
  • Increased entrainment and synchronization between physiological systems
  • Efficient and harmonious functioning of the cardiovascular, nervous ,hormonal and immune systems

The term coherence is also used in mathematics to describe the ordered or constructive distribution of the power content within a single waveform. In this case, the more stable the frequency and shape of the waveform, the higher the coherence.

The most powerful electrical device in the human system is not the brain, but the heart. The magnetic field produced by the heart is more than 5,000 times greater in strength than the field generated by the brain, and can be detected a number of feet away from the body, in all directions, using SQUID-based magnetometers. Coherence here is measured by Heart Rate Variability (HRV) which is the variation between pulses. The HRV of a healthy heart is irregular while regularity indicates serious problems. Applying a fast fourier transform on HRV waveforms yields data on sympathetic and parasympathetic activity and total autonomic nervous system (ANS) activity. Negative reactions and emotions create disorder and imbalance in the ANS. The ANS affects our digestive, cardiovascular,immune and hormonal systems. Positive feelings such as appreciation create increased order and balance in the ANS,resuting in increased hormonal and immune system balance and more efficient brain function. Intentionally altering one's emotional state through heart focus modifies afferent neurological input from the heart to the brain. A recent study has also shown that when intention is combined with HRV Coherence, the ability to manifest changes in reality (the study used DNA) became much more powerful and effective. Traditional meditation techniques such as Loving-Kindness, Universal Smile, Buddhist Compassion, etc., are much more effective in achieiving physiological congruence, er, coherence than merely entraining brain waves.

Many years ago when I mentioned this research to Bill Harris, he looked for some research to back up the benefits of Holosync and came up with Giampapa's studies on longevity which he began advertising.









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Interesting reading thought others might want to delve further too so I posted the links.

ANS = autonomic nervous system (ANS) http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/soh_13.html


More info on the hearts magnetic field http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/soh_20.html

Brains response to the hearts signal http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/soh_22.html

How they are finding out the effects of emotional states on the heart. http://www.heartmath.org/research/research-abstracts/mri-during-coherence.html

I thought this is interesting since it says something about using intention rather than merely relaxation. http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/soh_23.html
On Entraintment, Coherence and Auto http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/soh_16.html

The post seems a bit off topic to me since I am not sure what that has to do with Holosync. It probably would have been a better option to start a new thread given the lenght of this one already.

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K. Viefhaus (edited March 22, 2005).]






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Dear 411,
I,ve read your comments on this forum and one of the first things that strikes me is very simply this. For over 30 years I've studied and applied every type of selfhelp I could find. I've gone through the tedious process of finding what worked best and what didn't. Over time, and with much note taking, I started seeing absolute similarities within the processes that got results. Then I started comparing the best processes in an effort to distill the essence of what made them work. The bottom line, after all this work, is that your mind creates your life experience. Next, the most important rule is that the life experience you create will depend ONLY upon what you are focusing your mind on. Every thought is energy directed to create something. If you are focusing on the negative aspects of your life then you are really just reinforcing these aspects. If you want to get rid of these aspects you must start focusing on what you want - NOT what you don't want. Now, it's true that if you've created a mess in your life you must clean it up - but do not put any more emotional energy into it. Even pursueing various methods of selfhelp is acknowledging that you have problems you cannot solve by working with your own mind/thinking. This in itself will continue to reinforce the belief you have that you have problems. The only way out is by taking the time and conscious awareness to create more empowering beliefs to replace the negative/fearful beliefs. It takes time but if done consistently, only a fraction of the time it took to get you where you are now. There are no quick fixes. It has been your own thought patterns which have brought you to your present point, and the results are clearly evident. Using the same process in a positive way will also bring positive results. Consider that you did not need any type of program to create the negative results in your life, so why should you require one to get positive results? Just do what you've been doing with your mind all along but in a positive way. It is all about the thoughts you ALLOW yourself to keep thinking which makes all the difference. It is not complicated - the simplest most direct methods always work the best. The key is to apply the methods consistently.






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Hi Zabiam,

Great post !

"The mot important factor determining the results you get in life is what you focus on, wether you focus on getting it, or on not getting it. Whatever you represent in your mind (even something you don't want), your mind says "OK, I can do that", and starts working on creating that in your life."

That's from Bill Harris, and that's one of the messages he keeps on harping on, endlesly trying to word it in new ways so the message has a chance to get through, throughout his articles, courses, answers to mails, etc...

Cheers,

Erwan






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Hi, I'm new to this board. I've been a meditator for about 25 years (TM and TM Siddhis) I just started using Holosync about 8 months ago out of curiosity. It is a very pleasant experience and very powerful, however I have not had any major breakthroughs perhaps because I've already had many through my TM Siddhis program. I've also become quite interested in what is called the Integral Transformative Practice (ITP)which I think holds extraordinary value for all because it's aim is to treat all aspects of being: mind, body, spirit in an integral approach.
Holosync is one form of growth therapy. It is not a cure all. It is not going to solve all of the issues and make everything right. If you are having major upheavel then sometimes it is a good idea to look into working with an therapist as well and use Holosync less often until some of the issues that are surfacing during holosync have been resolved and integrated. Balancing current emotional/psychological issues is foremost as well as maintaining good health through somekind of centering exercise such as tai-chi, yoga etc. Also, diet, community involvement of some kind. You might want to check this link as an introduction to ITP http://www.itp-life.com/what.html It might help guide you to where you want to go.

++++++++++++++++


quote:
Originally posted by king411:
Hi guys...i am a new poster to this board and i've just read the thread entiltled "Holosync or Sedona Method?"
since a lot of you are aware of both programs i figured you are the people to talk to.....firstly, i have used both the Holosync and Sedona Method programs....after reading many of your posts on Holosync, i would say that i agree with most of you that Holosync is vastly overrated....infact, i suspect there's something 'fishy' about that course but i don't know what...i have used the Awakening Prologue since April 4th, 2003 and i have also undergone the 1st of Bill Harris's latest teleconference seminars...i am curently on the second teleconference seminar, and what have i received foe all this? NOTHING...ZERO! infact, my results haven't been neutral in the least; they've been rather neagtive...i have experienced emotional upheaval/pain as well as physical upheaval on pretty much an everyday basis...my system has not come any closer to getting used to the Holosync stimulus throughout this time (and it's been over a year)...there were times when i felt like commiting suicide due to the acute emotional pain i'd experience from using Holosync, and mentally, i've felt in the past year like i'm dumber as well as physically more lethargic...basically, my life before Holosync was much better than it is now, and even then it wasn't good...now that i've decided to stop because i'm getting worse because of Holosync, i've decided to follow the example of some of you and stop Holosync, but now i'm stuck and confused...i mainly used Holosync because i am suffering from a lot of 'internal resistance' - Bill Harris promised me that Holosync would resolve this, but i am now realizing this is BS!! you see, consciously, i have been very desperate for change for the past 4 years, but internally i have always struggled with ('resisted') personal growth, and i've noticed that my inner force is more powerful than my conscious desire to grow and change because the Sedona Method, Releasetechnique, Natural Brilliance, Invisible Path to success (basically every course Bill Harris endorses) as well as several paraliminals, and nothing works for me ..this is so depressing because all these courses seem to work for everybody else, especially the Sedona Method - now, i know that the problem is internal, but i don't know what to do - so can anybody please enlighten me as to what to do?
Thank you!








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[QUOTE]Originally posted by iI:
[It is not a cure all. It is not going to solve all of the issues and make everything right.

After 8 months on Holosync how do you know it is not a cure all etc. On what basis have you come to this conclusion. Is it from your own personal experience?






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I am new to this forum, and have read this thread with interest, as I am a Holosync user. I have just today started Purification level 1. This is the 6th set of CD's in the series.

I have a few comments relating to various pieces of posts previous.

I have only been doing the program for 19 months, which is quite a short period of time compared to the guidelines given for length of time using each level.

I am a naturally enthusiastic responder when I find something that appeals to me and in this case Holosync did, and also, it seems to be working for me.

The discussion about the starting levels seems relevant ---- I just knew when I needed to go on to the next level ---- and sometimes, i would jump ahead a few CD's just for one session, to feel the difference -- which I could.

After starting each new level, after about a week, i notice that i go into a crisis of some kind. This is consistent for me throughout all the levels. I call it 'stirring the pot' --- and everything comes bubbling out. At the time it is not that pleasant, but passes rather quickly, especially once i realise that this is what is happening.

I believe that Holosync has made a major impact on my life. However, I must say, that I have not only used the CD's but have studied the priciples of conscious change that Bill Harris teaches with the CD's. I have also done the teleconference courses that were mentioned in an earlier post.

On the contrary to the poster on this topic, I have found it most helpful.

I am a psychologist/homoeopath, and use the 'principles' with my clients without the CD's, and combine the work with other aspects of therapy that I have learned along the way, and have achieved marvelous results for all my clients who have decided to take this approach to healing.

It is a form of self-empowerment -- giving another vantage point to view events --- it has worked for me, and for my clients.

Some of my clients have asked me what i do, and when telling them about Holosync, they have chosen to buy the program.

I do not have the skills or the time to create my own programmes of this kind, so was happy to pay for it to be already done.

I have had quite a change in my 'personality' since beginning the program and the training. A good descriptor that may elucidate is that I am not phased by very much any more, seem to respond rather than react to events, and do not palliate myself when issues surface, but use the techniques offered by the program to deal with things and change them forever (I hope!).

I do not feel that Bill Harris or his CD's are a fraud --- as I know they work --- but I have noticed that no two people will have the same experience from the program.

I am looking forward to progressing through the program, and feel that it is safe and well supported.

I am sorry for the poster previously who has had no apparent gain, and aggravation from using the program. I would think that maybe you have some deepseated problems that you may need to seek assistance to remove, or work at removing --- This is what i do with my clients. If they are using Holosync, I encourage them to ring me if things come up whilst using, that they are struggling with. I support their process --- and Centrepointe does as well, as they have support workers who will discuss things on the phone if needed and will reply to emails if needed.

No program is perfect for everyone as has been stated.

I personally would not recommend this program or any program like it to anyone I suspected had serious problems that would need supervising if embarking on such a program. It does stir the pot, and one never knows how powerful an aggravation that may cause, and it could be dangerous if not assisted.

I tried the first CD of Purification today, and it is indeed much more powerful than the one I just finished. I know I can most likely look forward to another aggravation of things left to deal with within the next week. I personally look forward to these, as I see them as clearing the way.

Bill Harris may have become wealthy because of his company, but i don't begrudge him that --- he has provided me with a wonderful tool of development --- and the benefits in my abilities have been marked.

I am emotionally more centred, psychically more active, and physically shifting from where I have been to hopefully a better place. I am able to influence others, with integrity in a more powerful way due to the program and the CD's.

I am grateful.

I have tried Hemisync sporadically, and I do feel the effects, however, it does not seem to have the slow build up that Holosync incorporates, and which suits me.

Hope this has been of assistance to some who may like to hear a positive outcome

Best

Indi






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Indi,

Thanks for sharing your experience. You have mentioned that you do not recommend
hs for those with deep-rooted problems.

That was the main reason why I started hs namely to clear out those deep rooted problems/causes which are hard to get through other techs. So far it is working fine
for me. I am currently on P3./ 0.3 and have never skipped a level or immersion level.

During AL2 – AL4 a lot of problems surfaced and I contacted a professional processor to help me clean up those cases. (done by phone)
However, I think that hs cleans up my problem areas deeper and fuller because with
conventional processing tools mainly some triggers are removed. (there will be more
to be activated at any time)

Since then only a few problems surfaced and I haven’t used his help for a long time.

Cheers,









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Frodo02wrote:

Thanks for sharing your experience. You have mentioned that you do not recommend
hs for those with deep-rooted problems.

That was the main reason why I started hs namely to clear out those deep rooted problems/causes which are hard to get through other techs. So far it is working fine
for me. I am currently on P3./ 0.3 and have never skipped a level or immersion level.

*******Hi Frodo02

I guess what I really meant with regards to 'deep problems' was when there may be serious so called pathology.

Sometimes, if there are situations/emotional states that can be labelled with names for the sake of diagnosis and communication, that if they surface without supervision can tip people over the edge. This is possible with hypnosis as well.

Also, there is in my opinion a psycho-physical-dynamic plane within all problems, and where there is an emotional disturbance of a particular kind there will also be a corresponding organ affected. In my line of work, it has become obvious that not all organisms can handle the 'healing crisis' as easily as others, and some expire in the process - thankfully none of my clients so far :-)

I know this sounds serious, and it is, in some cases.
When I hear someone complain that they have tried everything for years and years to help them, and nothing has helped, this indicates to me that they need intervention from someone who may be able to find what the block is. Holosync is great for my problems, and for most of the people I know who use it, but there is one client I have, who has a diagnosable delusional disorder, who has not benefited as he would like. I have had to treat him concomitantly homoeopathically and psychotherapeutically in order to uncover the blocks. This is not easy in some conditions.

This does not mean that someone in his postion will not benefit from Holosync, but the progress is not as satisfying ---- maybe it is part of their condition that prevents the benefits from being evident? or they have expectations that are not within the realms possible from the program.
It is not a magic bullit as you know --- and if you are at P.3 you would have some 'tales' to tell on insights and experiences whilst using.

It is a complex situation --- none of us are the same. Each of us has a past that has created the present. Sometimes, just putting headphones on and doing the program is not enough. In these instances i would recommend as I have mentioned, that soemone get help from a professional of some kind.

I had a client just now who would not be able to handle any more input into her problems, and in her case, Holosync could push her into the abyss. I can do the work with her on becoming conscious and uncovering the core issues, and maybe when her threshold is a little higher she could be introduced to the program.

Just a few thoughts

Best

Robyn






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Robyn,

I realized after posting my thread that you might have had those clinical cases in mind.

I agree that those people should ask their
Doc before entering such a program. I think
there is something written about this when we ordered Awakening Level 1.

By the way until the end of 1995 consulted a classic homeopath. I was his patient for ten years visiting nearly every month. The result was tremendous. Also I did not have any serious disaeses I beame very fit. I don't even get strong colds anymore. I told him that he was my health insurance. The costs for the treatment very very reasonable
actually less then a health insurance.

At that time I was also doing some tech in the human potential movement e.g. Idenics,
NLP, TA etc...
He told me that he did not believe in those techs. For him only homeopahty could solve emotional and charater problems.

Unfortunately, he died in December 95 at the tender age of 72.

Cheers,







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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frodo02:
[B]Robyn,

By the way until the end of 1995 consulted a classic homeopath. I was his patient for ten years visiting nearly every month. The result was tremendous. Also I did not have any serious disaeses I beame very fit. I don't even get strong colds anymore. I told him that he was my health insurance. The costs for the treatment very very reasonable
actually less then a health insurance.

*****I am pleased that it has kept you well --- I have never seen a client every month for that length of time --- maybe an unusual situation?

At that time I was also doing some tech in the human potential movement e.g. Idenics,
NLP, TA etc...
He told me that he did not believe in those techs. For him only homeopahty could solve emotional and charater problems.

******I use NLP and hypnosis and various other techniques that have picked up over the years. I definitely see these as useful tools. Have recently been investigating the theories of Dr. Hamer on disease --- this is quite exciting information for someone in my profession with an interest in mind/body medicine.
Not sure if I agree with your homoeopath about techniques as above.

I don't always need to prescribe homoeopathics for my cases. Sometimes the shifts can happen with other methods. If there are serious blocks though, remedies do help as does the teachings that come with the Holosync program. I find them particularly useful with many of the clients who find their way to my door. Many of them are looking for direction, and as I do both Psych and Hom and personal development, I seem to attract particular kinds of clients who are ready for this kind of work.

As I mentioned earlier, got my new set of CD's for Purification level 1 yesterday, and listened to the Dive just once. Interesting that all day today, I could feel the aggravation/irritation that it stirred up. I was quite surprised, as the previous level had done its work.
In this instance, i will not listen again until this aggravation passes - but am extremely pleased to have the opportunity once again to look at what surfaces. It is indeed an interesting journey :-)


Best

Robyn






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Robyn,

The only thing I find strange in your thread is that you are emphasising that you are skipping levels in the hs program.

That is certainly not in line with CRI's recommendations and so far most participants who did this did not receive the full benefits of the program.

There was one lady (you can read her thread somewhere here) who went thru the program in
only seven years rather then the recommended
10 1/2 years. She complaint that she did not get the expected results.

I doubt that your techs are powerful enough to compensate for the lack of intrainment via hs.

Of course that's only my opinion.

Cheer,








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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frodo02:


The only thing I find strange in your thread is that you are emphasising that you are skipping levels in the hs program.

That is certainly not in line with CRI's recommendations and so far most participants who did this did not receive the full benefits of the program.


****I have gone through the levels a little quicker than recommended, but didn't change to a next level until I was just not getting anything out of the preceding one. I did have a bit of a mix up in Awakening Level 3, where I used CD2 and it just did not do anything for me at all --- I tried it for a week, and it felt exactly like the CD1 from that set --- so I put in the next one, to see if I could feel the 'impact', and could so continued on with that one, thinking I had only skipped one CD --- when in actuality, I had inadvertently placed CD4 in the player, and therefore had totally skipped the 3rd CD.
I didn't realize it until about 6 weeks into it, so decided that there would be no point in going back! So I in effect skipped 3 months worth of entrainment.

I don't want to do the program faster, but I do want to change when there is not obvious impact occurring. Maybe my brain adjusts quickly? I may not last a full year on this new Purification level, however, based on my track record, about 10 months will probably be the time frame. Will change when it has done its job.

I think the guidelines are just that --- they are not set in stone --- they have to take into account all the different users.
Remember, Bill Harris recounts how he used a low frequency before he was ready, and had a severe reaction --- i believe this was Purification level 1 -- I must have read this somewhere --- and he has survived his experimentation.

I am not too concerned. I feel I am benefiting greatly from it. I will continue to change when I feel it is not offering me any more challenge.


I will look for the post you were referring to.


Best

Indi






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I have gone through the levels a little quicker than recommended, but didn't change to a next level until I was just not getting anything out of the preceding one
*******************************************

Hi Indy,

How do specify when you get something out of a level? What do you consider as overwhelm symptoms?

I consider feeling tired after meditation or
falling unconcsious during meditation as an overwhelm symptom.

Anyway thanks for your information.

Cheers,







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Frodo02 wrote:


How do specify when you get something out of a level? What do you consider as overwhelm symptoms?
I consider feeling tired after meditation or
falling unconcsious during meditation as an overwhelm symptom.
-----------

***I have quite a few 'symptoms' that I feel are related to the impact of the level:

the first thing that happens when I start a new level, is that I have a physical reaction -- a kind of pulling sensation. There was one spectacular one of these where my body almost lifted off the couch I was semi reclined on -- only from my waist down but a significant event. Since then, nothing has been quite as dramatic, but still feel pulling sensations and lots of pops and cracks in the first week or so of each level.
I also feel quite alot of pressure in my head.
Initially, I drift off to sleep just after it kicks into delta -- however that is not always, and as the weeks go by, this stops happening unless am lying in bed and it is go to sleep time.

I don't see these as 'overwhelm' --- that is something that comes for me starting about 1 week after beginning a new CD. I get quite irritated, and find myself being more emotional than usual --- and some issue that is needing dealing with comes bubbling up and to a head and gives me a great opportunity to deal with it.

This is not a pleasant time, but once I realize that it is the program that is pushing stuff up, I go with it, and use the trainging from various sources and aim to let it peak and hopefully be gone forever.

This level I began though, did it after the first sitting --- and I have only just come down from being quite spaced out for about a week. VEry obviously the program.

When the above symptoms no longer happen, I take this as a sign that I am ready for the next level.

Anyway, that is what happens for me. I realize that it is different for everyone

Overwhelm is definitely something I welcome and appreciate the info that Bill has offered in how to deal with this.
The principles of Conscious living are wonderful tools to move to another vantage point and his internet course is additional useful training.

Being a psychologist, and having used many many 'methods' for therapy for eons, I find that the programs offered by Centrepointe to be not just theory but practical as well, and this has been something that I use with my clients as well as for myself.

I have no complaints.

I have had some incredibly interesting experiences with the 'floating' sound track.
The first time I used it, I felt I had been awake all night --- but as it turns out, I am one of those people who is aware that I am asleep, and when i use this track, it is almost unbearably boring --- no dreams, just 'nothingness'.

Consequently, I don't use this track very often, as i really enjoy a rich dream world and prefer it to the 'nothingness' - which even though I describe as boring, had another quality that I can't quite describe that was rather pleasing as well.

What has been your experience with 'floating'?

Best

Indi






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Indi,

Very interesting. By this I mean your experience with the floating cd.

I am now six years on the program and never have used the floating cd. I might
give it try.

So far, I have hardly heard about people using the float. Like myself most
people prefer to sleep during night rather then having the googles in the ears.

Cheers,









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Hi to everybody who reads this.First of all..I just registered to this site so i could reply to this forum. I found this forum while doing some research on holosync, I just started using the program and i wanted to find out a little more about it, and I happend upon here where I found many of yall's comments and complaints. If I could I wish I could help each and everyone of you who seem to be having problems with there lives, but I can't. I have been feeling like I was in a rut for years now..and I was really getting tired of it..feeling depressed everday cause I couldn't get over certain things..so I began searching again...for something different...a way to be happy again..the way I used to be when I was a child..I'm not here to say what I think is right or wrong...but I would like to say my opinion on holosync...while I think it's an excellent listening tool for meditation, I wouldn't rely on it to solve or eliminate any issues on it's own. I do believe that listening to the audio's will definetly aid you in entering into different states of concsciousness, but it seems as though many people are using this program as a crutch for their suppossed problems. The way that I ended up digging myself into that rut I was talking about was by trying to figure out who I was..I began searching for the spiritual side, but only lead myself to a seemingly unescapable place of misery..this may not be the case for all of you, but almost everyone that I know that has gone down the path of searching for the truth has ended up at the point at which most of you describe at one point or another. Recently I have discovered a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle . I have always been skeptical of the books that supposedly contained the knowledge that I was looking for, but this one seemed different. This one doesn't claim to hold the truth and promise you things such as the Holosync program does. It goes way beyond any other book I have ever read. It simply explains how to live in the NOW, which is where we should be. Not seeing things through the eyes of the past..or wondering far into the mind projected future only to build up hopes that can be destroyed, or worring about the outcome. Simply be here in this moment. I can't read you the whole book on here, unfortunately. but for those of you who seem to be struggling with psychological issues or even for those of you who just wish to get back intouch with your true self. I highly suggest this book. It's also available on audio cd and is read by the author Eckhart Tolle..I just began reading this about 3 days ago and I already feel so much better about life. I hope that all of you can feel the same and that this message will help out at least one person. I send my blessings for those of you in search of what we all need. If any of you have any questions or want to talk about something you can email me at binary222@hotmail.com / I will check back in to this forum in the near Now.






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Skindeep,

It's good that you found something that has helped you over your current problems. I was in a similar situation of despair about ten years ago when I found the books of Vernon Howard very helpful.
They gave me a lot of strength during those times and as a result of it I climbed out of my whole so to speak.

However, in regard to Eckerhard Tolle I have a differen opinion. I know that he is quiet a new-age guru. I read his book "The power of now" about two years ago. Also I basically agree with his writing it did not contain anything new to me.

I had a strange feeling while read his book. Later I discovered that his book is actually an un-authorized copy of Meister Eckerhard, a German mystic who lived I believe 500 years ago.

Tolle not only pinched his book but also his name. His original name is Ullrich Tolle.

Cheers,


[This message has been edited by Frodo02 (edited September 06, 2005).]






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Interesting thread, this is :-)

I too, notice tensing, pulling and low-back spasms when adjusting to new Holo levels. AL3, disk 2 has plunged me into a bit of existential despair lately, so I briefly resorted to the Insight disk to smooth things out, which it did. I sort'a bounce between the two regardless.

I understand enough about overwhelm and dealing with it. I also appreciate all the upfront literature Centerpointe provides for this. But sometimes, there isn't enough drive, energy or motivation inside me to even get a foothold to deal with it all.

I never could get into the "Floating" track - maybe I'm already "asleep" during it too, but don't realize it. I just feel annoyed sometimes afterward. I had "sleep witnessing" a number of times when doing TM years ago. It can REALLY be distressing when you are trying with-all-your-might to simply open an eye or move a muscle to "wake up!"

"The Power of Now" was really a help to me too. I'd listen to it on CDs I got from the local library and it is a powerful and transforming experience. I think that, (and some readings in basic Buddhist psychology, Hahn, zen, Lama, etc.) has been as beneficial to me as any other seminar Bill or others offer.

Regarding Centerpointe "overpromising" - it is the one thing I've tried that seems to deliver everything it says it does. The intro literature seemed reasonable and well thought out before I started, and many of the details and aspects fell into place with subsequent practice. There may be cheaper and more effective things out there, but Centerpointe's aggressive "marketing" (like TM's at one time) introduces a much wider audience to this experience.

I've had interesting results with Brainwave Generator too. But, I'd be concerned about what can happen to independant cybernauts using this stuff and all the overwhelm and stuff it can unleash. The Centerpointe package is really relevant and useful regarding this stuff.

[This message has been edited by lad (edited September 08, 2005).]






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Froto02,

I am curious as to how you realized that The Power of Now is an unauthorized copy of this other guys book? I did some research myself and I found little on Eckhard, but I did find that Tolle did change his name a few years back to Eckhard and he even admitted where it came from. I wouldn't be suprised if he learned a lot from that guy and may say a lot of the same things, but I find it hard to believe that he almost took the whole book. There's too many things in this book that show it's from his personal experience. There's many books out there that talk about the exact same thing, I think everyone just has a different way of saying it. Either way...I don't really care and I'm not defending him, but I would like to know more about this other book.






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Skindeep,

It looks to me that “The power of now” spoke to you and really touched you.
The books conveyed some good and valid ideas regardless of whether these ideas originate from Tolle or Meister Eckerhard.

I did not say that Tolle copied the Meister Eckerhard’s book word by word but it was certainly the blue print so to speak. In “The power of now” Tolle hinted that
he became enlightened. That attracted a lot of people and created a kind of cult.

I don’t think that he is enlightened because he uses too much “sugar coating” which
is an ego-driven activity. Also the name change from Ullrich to Eckerhard and other
things indicate this.

You should not make the mistake by tying those valid information you have received
from “The power of now” to the person Tolle. Otherwise, if Tolle does something
which you don’t approve you would drop everything connect to Tolle. That means you could no longer use those valid information too.


Cheers,









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quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
Thanks Garic. I am well aware of the lower carrier frequency claim, I don't know if Nick is talking about this or other differences that I am not aware of.

If lower carrier frequencies made Holosync more efficient, all one has to do is to encode his own cds with such frequencies using brainwave generator software. Of all the companies in brainwave entrainment business, Holosync seems to be the only one make the claim that lower carrier frequencies are superior, for heaven's sake let's assume that claim is true, why can't people just make their own cds using these lower carrier frequencies, without paying the high price to Holosync? Why there are those still insist after listening to products from all major producers of brainwave entrainment products and from BWGEN encoded cds, that Holosync is more special? and why NONE of the Holysync clients who completed the advanced level of listening come out testify that they indeed have achieved the promised results? The only one person who did come out, (SuzyQ?), was not all that positive about Holosync to say the least.

It also bothers me that all of you regular credible contributors seem to all defending Holosync, some with initial negative view but very quickly (in two weeks of listening according to the psot) changed their mind, Alex, who is normally neutral and objective, come to Bill's defense as well, this all coincides with the new lease of LSC CD'S that use the Holosync encoding, I wonder if there is pressure from the top to promote the Holosync now, just a thought, a reasonable thought.

Peace and love to all.









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I have gone through all twelve levels of centerpointe holysync AND the gamma frequency CD--result nothing that I notice--the bad thought occurs to me that I have paid thousands of bucks for recordings of rain and the sea and fallen for a slick salesman (Bill Harris). There is no quality evidence that I know of to support the holysync theory and the "lower frequency" gimmick is probably just a buck grabber. I don't actually feel angry simply disappointed at my own gullibility.






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Hengis,

I am sure you're going to get people telling you (by implication or stated outright) that it's your fault. You did something wrong, you approached it improperly, etc.

It's my belief that while the technology does have some effect, the majority of the work is being done by the expectations of the people listening to the tapes. Sort of an enhanced placebo effect.

Sorta like giving someone a pill that is a very mild sedative and telling them it is a powerful tranquilizer. The little bit of sedation confirms expectations and helps them do it to themselves better.








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hengis777

How many years did it take you to get through all levels? Did you finish flowering level 4?

I don't believe that hs works for all but probably for most people.

Cheers,







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king, I tried holysync-and the company actually told me to stop because of the overwhelm. (I am familiar with the sedona release technique). Personally, I think the owner is sincere in what he has to offer and I think the company has something to offer- if a person can take it.

There is a big difference in being somewhat uncomfortable and downright miserable or dangerously depressed.

On a reply to the handbook of the Navigator above topic, I posted a reply 19Feb2006.. You might be interested in reading the reply.

Maybe in another time of our lives, the holysync method might benefit us.

I wish you the best in your search. I think Learning Strategies offers many great courses paraliminals.

khalah






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Hmmm. It is great to read all these contributions from other HS users. I started a year ago and am on Awakening Level 1 CD4. This past year has been a bumpy one emotionally and I think it may be caused by a combination of re-entering the workforce and learning lots of new skills, having to come to terms with the fact that my mental faculties are not nearly as sharp as they used to be and perhaps some overwhelm caused by the CDs.

Periods of intense anxiety have dogged my state from time to time about my ability to be a worthwhile employee. Sometimes I have felt like driving head on into a semi-trailer as it would be so much easier than dealing with everything. But then I remember that my current situation is a CHOICE and I can change that choice at any time.

So... is HS working for me? I can't be sure. The mind is such a subjective organism that I can't tell if I am indeed experiencing a placebo effect or if the affects are genuine. Am I being ripped off? Don't know that one either.

I do know that I am able to view things from a much more detached position and that I can put my emotional reactions to the side if that is necessary to get through a situation - this can be a real advantage especially when responding to family members who are behaviing in an extremely emotive manner.

When I have the feelings of anxiety, my guts feel all shaking and I feel as though I am falling apart. It is truly uncomfortable and makes me feel like a failure. Do you other HS users feel this physical sensation too?

When I use the HS it feels good. My life is so darn busy I usually listen to it at bedtime and fall asleep anywhere from the end of the first 1/2 hour to the end of the entire hour. Because of this I tend to use each CD for quite a long time before switching to the next one.






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I would first and foremost like to sincerely thank all of you and others who are not on this board for sharing your genuine experiences of HS. Clearly the program is dubious at best and has very little (if anything) to offer. This can be clearly seen in those who have progressed to the deeper levels or indeed even finished the entire program. How I and so many others got sucked in and taken for a ride is pretty amazing. Maybe they have some hidden subliminal material that convinces the subconscious that it is great. And I have to admit their marketing strategies are absolutely BRILLIANT and very compelling. But at the end of the day ONE has to simply look at the facts!!

By the way I think there is a reason why some or even many people speak highly of the program. (Notice that the overwhelming majority of these are at the very early stages of the program only.) The reason is simply that they have been souped up with endorphins and they have been carried away by emotion and also the hopes of all the wonderfull stuff which they have been told will come.

In my opinion a serious student of mastery would do well to stay well clear of HS and consider another path altogether.
Regards to you all






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I should also add that there appears to be some genuine benefit gained from using HS over a period of time. But it probably has more to do with the fact that these people are growth enthusiasts and they have also spend many an our in meditation/contemplation. So of course they have gained something.
Now, I don't want to make out that everyone making a buck or two is dubious but there is an old saying: "follow the money trail". The marketing behind the HS is clever very clever. But its all to easy to keep saying that the changes will happen in level 4, or 6 or 8 or that you have to buy some expensive "LPIP" course to get somewhere in life. Wake up people! the answers to lifes questions are available everywhere and they don't necessarily cost so much!! Good luck to you all






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I should also add that there appears to be some genuine benefit gained from using HS over a period of time. But it probably has more to do with the fact that these people are growth enthusiasts and they have also spend many an our in meditation/contemplation. So of course they have gained something.
Now, I don't want to make out that everyone making a buck or two is dubious but there is an old saying: "follow the money trail". The marketing behind the HS is clever very clever. But its all to easy to keep saying that the changes will happen in level 4, or 6 or 8 or that you have to buy some expensive "LPIP" course to get somewhere in life. Wake up people! the answers to lifes questions are available everywhere and they don't necessarily cost so much!! Good luck to you all






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I am still amused that money somehow relates to ones own developement and that for some, Holosync costs to much for the return they receive.

If you want to focus on money maybe you should do an accounting class instead.

If Holosync or something similiar is out of your price range there are other products out there that can get one started. What is the value of your own developement? I think that "priceless" is a good place to start.








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Folks I locking this thread. It a rather long read and to make it easier to see the new post I started another thread here. http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001022.html

So post your replies and new posts on that .

Alex






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