Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human What happens after Holosync?

well ive seen HS at work and to those who think that because of some discomfort that we must stop it
life that easy? not for a second

now i practice kundalini yoga and some people say the same sort of thing

fresh emotions and things get disrupted so that they may be refined or removed

kind of like while cleaning a fish tank
it gets very cloudy unless you take the water away

the water is our live because we have no buckets to put the fish in
thats why we have to stick it out

if it creates somekind of mind control or trance or negative effects then it is not worthy

other that those possibilities, which exist in anything, i cant see the problem
imagery is involved a lot so thats why ive not gone very far but as i said ive seen results even every early on

and if you cannot deal with some of the more unfortunate things in life then try some confidence building or spiritual understanding

but if you are not expecting it then why are you doing self-improvement?

id rather call it self-movement

because i do not think we are changing a permanent entity but moving it forward going or deeper into that entity

I believe I was trying to point out that when you get into an "Overwhelmed" type situation there is no point in resisting it. Your body shuts down because it is dealing with to much. It is like passing through a big storm, it won't last forever but you can get your butt kicked if you try to fight it. About all you can do is stick your nose into it and watch it go by. When it has gone it's way you can then go on with your charted course.

I like to do , what I call the Dali Lama thing, If something is wrong and we can fix it then there is nothing to worry about-we will just fix it, If something is wrong and we can't fix it then there is nothing to worry about-we can't fix it.

Facing overwhelm is one of those things you can't really fix. So relax, don't worry and let it pass. Resistance is futile as the Borg have pointed out.

Get a Mai Tai, some chips and pretend you are watching a old movie.

Jeff

To Maya2222: Can you please tell me more about the knid of upheaval and discomfort you have experienced? I have a friend who is using this program, and I was considering it, but frankly dealing with our self-created sadness, resistance, or whatever else it may be might be better than suffering from other pain inflicted by a program that is supposed to help. Please help me decide.

quote:

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Originally posted by maya2222:
Hello,
I'm new to your board and I found it when I did an internet search looking for info on Holosync. Like king411, my experience with the tapes, cds in my case, wasn't very good. I've only been using the tapes for about 4 months but I've experience major upheaval and discomfort. I'm told by the tele-counselor at Centerpointe that this reaction is normal and I should continue the program and I'll begin to reap the benefits. At this point I'm very skeptical and quite frankly, reluctant to continue. I have to function in daily life and I've had days when I couldn't. I purchased the program for many of the same reasons that most do, looking for peace of mind, spiritual growth, healing of old wounds but I've found none of the above. Maybe holosync is the right path for some but I'm finding that it isn't for me.

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Check out the end of this interview.
http://www.mindmachines.com/AVsJournal/article-AnE-InterviewMichaelHutchison.htm

This is very old news for some and was referenced earlier.

Entraining certain brainwaves and brain synchrony for extended periods of time every day might not be so healthy after all.

I was listening to Mind Wide Open by Steven Johnson and, interestingly enough, neurofeedback training to create a good state of attention for various mental tasks includes LOWERING the theta brain wave. Implied or outright stated (I don't exactly remember) is that the theta brainwave is associated with ADD type states. I found that fascinating because everyone was so pumped up over the theta brainwave. Entraining it everyday, however, seems to lead to a more scatterbrained state overall.

Who knows what delta entrainment over long periods of time may actually be doing to the brain?

Perhaps Harris's theory is less than half-baked? Maybe it isn't causing issues to be worked out but rather putting the brain into a state where these sorts of feelings of conflict and overwhelm are the natural response?

This could account for a lot of stuff that goes on regarding holosync. It may actually put your brain into a funk. Some people learn how to deal with it and thus are able to deal better with the other general funky states in life, while others are simply damaged by it. Just musing upon this.

But, anyway, forcing the brain into a state for prolonged periods of time each day may not be beneficial.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 20, 2005).]

Babayada,

Thanks for posting a link to that article. Very interesting and enlightening.

Cheers

Hi All,

I've been a regular user of Holosync for over a year and a ahlf now, currently finishing Awakening level 2.

Here's what I have to say : Holosync works. That's all ! It really works, whatever you do, however you do it (I used it for several months lying in bed and falling asleep over it and it still worked !)

I concurr : some of the effects of using Holosync are, as some have said here, very much akin to withdrawing from alcohol addiction. Actually what Holosync does is to break the myriad of micro-addictions that you have (addiction to behaviors, to people, to situations, etc...) and of course although most of the time it's a very pleasant process ("Gee, I DO feel better WITHOUT the need to yell at my wife whenever she mentions her male friends !"), sometimes it's really painfull, especially when you're on the verge of realizing that something unpleasant in your life is really of your own making...

At Centerpointe, they call this "Owerwhelm". I think it's quite accurate, although it could have simply be named "meditation stress" ! Meditation will provoke that sometimes. Stress is part of the process of growth (and Holosync meditation does force you to grow, wether you like it or not). Traditional meditation people know quite well about this phenomenon. Chinese Taoists (quoted by B K Frantzis in his book "The Great Stillness") call meditation "jumping in the dragon's mouth" : you will get bitten, and it will hurt ! To put it rudely, meditation is not for sissies ! And Holosync is meditation on steroïds. So it's bound sometimes to hurt bad.

Looking back at my year and a half of using Holosync, I'm beginning to see patterns.
At the start of each level, things were all rosy and nice : my daily meditation would make me so "high" I had energy aplenty for the rest of the day. Then later in the process I'd start to get antsy feelings, that would nag me all day long, and then depression, and then I'd be completely falling apart, like my whole life was a mess, feeling I'd better hang myself than go on with it all. At those times, my life would or would not objectively be particularly difficult (Hey, I got laid off while my wife made plans to leave me, at a time when I was living abroad in a VERY foreign country ! That was a tough time ! But I also got terrible overwhelm at times whan all was rosy, so there's no real rule). And then someday things would clear up, and I'd be looking at mself like from a higher standpoint, and realizing : "Hey, it's not that bad. It's just a situation, and I know how to handle it.". After that I'd be back in my pleasant "high" state, and the cycle would repeat.
At other times, I would get the feeling that thoses CDs were really a waste of time, and why bother with them. Discouragement is another form of overwhelm (at least for me. Every one has one or several "prefered" ways of feeling stress).
This could go on and on, until I got the feeling the CDs were "not working" anymore. That's the signal that it's time to go to another level. At that time, I just felt good, and comparing my state with how I was before doing that level of the program, I'd rejoice at the obvious progress I'd made. Then I start a new level, and I get some different (deeper) crap to deal with, in a similar pattern involving temporary stress, anguish, and discouragement (although I do notice that it gets easier with each level).

Why am I telling you all about this ? Not because I'm a realy very interesting person, but to illustrate one thing : I have (and I believe most Holosync users have) gone through everything that you're describing. The pain, the doubt, the freaking out, and all ! And that there were rewards at the end of the ordeal !

What kept me going on despite the incomfort and pain ? The fact that Centerpointe people very accurately described beforehand (over the phone, and in their support material) everything that could happen to me in the course of using Holosync, and they gave me simple ways of helping out all those unpleasant feelings. That helped me trust them and gave me the courage to go through the whole thing.
Now I know the pattern, and although Level 2 has been somwhat painful, knowing what was happening made it a lot easier than Level 1 (which, I admit, was gruesome for me, far worse that Awakening Prologue). With that experience, I can now see things coming, and make more readily use of the simple solutions Centerpointe people pointed out to me te make things easier (breathing exercices, artistic expression, sports, and most of all practicing the "witness" attitude).

Meditation and growth are not easy. Centerpointe doesn't pretend that their Holosync Program makes either a stroll in the park. What the program does is make meditation and growth FOOLPROOF. That's the value that they sell : follow the instructions (and they're really simple), and there's NO WAY you can blotch it. Compare that to the extreme difficulty of learning traditional meditation, or of applying succesfully most self-growth methods ! Especially when you're a person with extremely low self esteem and sense of personnal capacity to succeed, like I was before starting Holosync, and like I believe most people who come to Holosync tend to be.

SO I'd like to say to all those who bought Holosync, and think they've fallen for a scam : "Stick to it, listen daily to your CDs! Procrastinating wont make the process easier, but it'll make it definitely slower, and you'll stay in the rut longer than you really need to. Re-read the support material they hand out, and call their Hotline if you really need some immediate relief. IT IS WORKING, YOU WILL REAP THE BENEFITS"

One thing I like about Centerpointe is that although their marketing is quite agressive (but hey, I've seen much worse lots of places on the Internet !) they'll never push you to purchase a level of the program before you've REALLY finished the previous one. They really want you to get value from what you buy.
By the way, if you think their marketing has something fishy, consider that Holosync is a VERY UNUSUAL product, so it's really crucial for them to get A LOT of attention from potential buyers before they make a decision. I myself hesitated for 2 full years before buying Awakening Prologue (their first, introductory, level in the program). Now I kick kick myself for not having entered the program earlier. I am so much happier today compared to a year and a half ago, that I'm just mad at myself for having missed the opportunity to be today over three years into the program, and probably light-years away from where I am now !

Finally, on a technical note : someone wrote that Holosync is taking you into Theta, and that Theta brainwave rythm is associated with ADD, so it might not be wise to delve too much there, as you might get ADD yourself !
First, Theta has been associated with ADD, this is true, but Theta is also associated with emotionnal healing, creative insight, and many other positive aspects.
The problem with Theta in the case of ADD is that the children try to use theis brainwave state in situations where it's sub-optimal. But Theta itself is not a "problematic" brainwave state, quite the contrary.
Second, let's put things straight : the basic information in the argument is wrong. Holosync desn't put you in prolonged Theta. Actually it goes much deeper, into deep Delta (Frequencies of deep sleep, brain restoration, neural growth, and natural production of DHEA and growth Hormone to name a few).
Also experience has shown (my personnal experience and the collective experience of Holosync users, archived by Centerpointe) that staying in prolonged Delta (or any state for that matter, including Theta) has naver made anyone stay "stucked" in that state. Otherwise since Delta is the frequency of deep sleep, Holosync users would never wake up and stay in a permanent coma ! This has not been observed, and surely if there was ever one such case reported, Centerpointe would have gotten severely sued, and we wouldn't miss having heard about it (lol).

I'll finish with a word about the absence of communication between Holosync users.
At first I wondered why Centerpointe didn't set up a Forum for the participants in their program to exchange views. I thought it would be a good thing, and that it was a shame that they didn't do it. Now with some experience, I have come to think that it was wise of them not to set up a forum. Beginners would have flooded the forum with their doubts, their angst, all of their bad feelings, as we see in too many forums. Using Holosync makes a lot of crap come out, so inevitably the forum would have quickly become a very unpleasant place. Part of the process of personnal growth is learning to take responsibility for what you feel and experience, and stop blaming it on outside events, other people, the government, or the meditation CDs one listens to. The CDs provoke the emergence of e lot of stuff, but the stuff itself comes from the listerner in the first place. To get rid of it, paradoxically, one has to accept it. People who go on a forum and yell out their pain and discontent, who blame the CDs or the company that sold it to them, are not in the process of taking responsibility. SInce there is no forum, if they want to yell at someone, they'll have to call the Centerpointe Hotline, and this will give the Staff at Centerpointe a chance to help them, at a moment when they clearly need it the most.

All in all, I think they're doing it the right way.

That was my (pretty long) 2 cents. I hope it helps clarify the issue a little and provides some usefull info to those who are lookinbg for it.

Be all well,

Erwan

PS : I am not a part of Centerpointe, or in any way affiliated to them. I will not benefit in any way if any reader of this post decides to go for the program, except if he decides to let me know about it, in which case I will feel good for knowing that I helped someone make a wise decision.

Reread the post.

I did not say that the holosync method puts you into a theta brainwave. I said, later in the post, that the delta brainwave may not be so beneficial either, and it was there I was referring to holosync.

Theta waves are associated with a lot of things, yes. It is a wild and wooly sort of thing as I see it. I do not think we know enough about the brain and how these brainwaves work and how to entrain what parts of the brain in order to make a truly useful technology. The activity in the brain is very dynamic.

I was not saying that the brain was going to be stuck in theta. Prolonged entrainment in the theta state MAY, I think, not be beneficial for concentration throughout the day. It may make it easier for people to go into hairbrained states, let's say. I don't know of any studies, but in retrospect, I do notice that the more foggy periods of my life were those in which I was using entrainment technology (for theta) quite a bit. So there may be something to it.

Also, what's all this garbage about traditional meditation being so hard? What? You need a PhD. in meditation science in order to do it "right"?

I don't know what kind of meditation you've been trying to do.

Being mindful is a simple practice. I am not saying it's easy, but it is incredibly simple.

Now, if we're talking about advanced spiritual progress such as the kind Frantzis talks about in discussing the water method, ok, here were getting into different territory.

I sincerely doubt that holosync brings you to the same places that tutelage under taoist master will bring you, sorry. That process is advanced and subtle and obviously takes a lifetime of dedication.

I strongly believe that any benefits holosync gives you can be achieved in a better and more balanced way through a half hour or so of mindfulness everyday. And that really isn't that hard at all, really. It also teaches lessons that the purely passive method of holosync probably won't. And it's free in terms of money if not in dedication and effort.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 20, 2005).]

Babayada,

Thanks for correcting me on some points, I did oversee a few points in the posts I mentionned.

You appear to have read BK Frantzis. He's one of my favorite authors and a person I respect very much. I have personally trained with two of his direct students in Chi Gung and basic taoist meditation, and What they teach is very powerfull.
Yet there is a need for a strong dedication to keep practicing Frantzis' material, and not everyone has it.
Using Holosync makes meditation both much easier and more powerfull. For people who like me began with issues of low self-confidence and very dysfunctionnal mental strategies in the eveluation of one's practice, Holosync is absolutely invaluable in that it gives one confidence that the meditation WILL be done right, whatever one does.
I do think that in order to get the most of Holosync, it is better to have some background in traditional meditation, and/or NLP or Self-Hypnosis.
The Holosync technology is a very powerfull meditation tool, it's safe (no-one has gone crazy using it to date, or died out of using it, or suffered any brain damage...) and the support Centerpointe gives is very good.
Also note what I said on another forum : for me the high price is not heresy, from a marketing standpoint it's really rational, and it helps selling more and getting the participants to be more dedicated.

Finally, let me tell you that before going into the program, I read almost every existing bit of information regarding Binaureal beats that could be found (at least on the internet, and that's already a lot). I made my own custom BB CDs and played a lot with them. (By the way, I got some pretty interesting results by checking my aura on a machine that reads Kirlian signatures. Remind me to write about that in another post !). Finally, although I was using some professional level software, I wasn't really satisfied with the CDs I made, and always found the Meditation experience to be very deep (deeper ever than what I'd get from Taoist practices learnt from lineage trainers) the sound itself was very irritating to my ears, and that made the experience sub-optimal for me.
I decided to purchase Awakening Prologue, and was amazed at the quality of both the soundtrack themselves, and of the support material. Centerpointe CDs sounded SOO much better than what I could create myself, and they gave really usefull advice on how to make the best of it, things I never would have figured out by myself, or at least not before getting years of experience. ANd their support helps one not to get discouraged, which can happen allong any path.
So for me it was all well worth the price.

Now I made the decision to purchase the whole program. All in all it cost me 1900 Euro. I got 10 years (or more) of steady growth, for the price of 25 sessions with a therapist, which is roughly 2 years of therapy.
Well I was in therapy for some time in the past, and it got me nowhere close to where I'm now, so I think that for me, the 1900 Euro are allready amortized. Now all the rest of what I'm getting is free bonus !

Anyway, the crux of the matter is that I choose to view this subject in a positive way that reinforces my well-being and empowers me for the future.
You're free to do it the other way around if you choose to, but by focusing on what you don't like in life, you'll just get more things you don't like !

I'd recommend you just give Holosync another try.
Cheap secondhand CDs are available on eBay if you don't want to spend the money, so there's no reason to be stopped by the cost. And you might get your kick by ripping off centerpointe in such a way.
Also if you're annoyed at the idea of having the affirmations of someone else on the supra-liminal part of the secondhand soundtracks you buy, I'll give you a trick. The supra-liminals are Freqency modulated on the 15500 Hz frequency. The peak in intensity is clearly visible if you do a spectral analysis of the soundtracks. To get those off the sountracks, you can either do a low-pass filter set at 15000 Hz, using any good sound engineering software out there on the market,, and then re-burn your CDs (and re-sell the originlas again !), or even more simply turn the sountracks to MP3. The Frequencies above 5000 Hz are all filtered out in MP3, and the frequencies that create the Binaureal Beat still remain, so the soundtracks are still completely effective (and there again you can re-sell your CDs, so in the end it costs you nearly nothing).

ANd try and have a look at Bill Harris book Thresholds of the mind (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972178007/qid=1106336008/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/002-7790369-8403239?v=glance&s=books). It recaps nearly everything the guys in Centerpointe's support staff can tell you if you're stuck, so you'll have almost the full benefit of the program for really a fraction of the price (except for the personnal support, which I did find pretty helpfull)

Why dont'cha give it a try ?
might be fun !

Cheers,

Erwan

In my opinion, holosync is a scam. Anything that proposes you take an hour each day to listen to tapes and then tell you it could take forever to get results is suspicious at best.

Also note how they are always mailing "deals" to buy the whole package at a discount. If it was so great, why would that be an ongoing practice?

I bought the beginning package and gave it about 2 full months with no results whatsoever. Of course, they say that is not enough time. I was "resisting". No, I was BORED. I can get more relaxed doing self hypnosis.

Having had depression problems, etc., I tried this because of some good review I had seen on it. I am sorry I did it and would not recommend it to anyone.