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I was responding to what you and webcrawler wrote.

It looked from the information being presented that a "NLP Comp is only good for therapists" meme was amalgamating, and I wanted to break it up. I know nothing as to the intentions and experiences of either of you.

As for persuasion, why not recommend Bandler? Years ago, I attended Bandler's Patterns of Persuasion seminar. Frankly, after attending a persuasion seminar by Bandler, you could come up with your own speed seduction techniques. After all, it's what Ross did, didn't he?

BTW, from personal experience, the New Technology of Achievement does not do the NLP Comp team justice. They are simply amazing. Especially Gerry Schmidt.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited July 22, 2004).]






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I'm mainly discussing products and not training, and from what I have seen the products I've recommended are the best for persuasion and general use for people who don't want to become NLP Practitioners.

As for Bandler, from my experiences with his products on persuasion not much is taught consciously and I prefer explict models. Unconscious installation is is fine but in addition to conscious instruction. IMO his newer materials (after "Time For a Change") are more useful for experienced practitioners. I won't go further into the "conscious vs unconscious learning" debate since that is an old issue in NLP and we won't resolve it here.

I recommended "NLP: The New Technology of Achievement" as an introductory course for general use as an alternative to Tony's products. From my experience they teach far more than Tony does. Of course Practitoner Training would be much more comprehensive but that is another topic.

I buy products from almost everyone in NLP, at least the big names, but I also realize that most people are not into this enough to go that far.






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I prefer a mix, personally, of unconscious and explicit training.

In the case of someone new to NLP, I'd recommend buying Using Your Brain for a Change and maybe Frogs into Princes. Then get a nice introductory tape set. Your recommendation of the New Tech of Achievement is good.

I'd then, if still interested, pursue advanced stuff. Bandler seminars on tape are good. Hypnosis in Munich is awesome. Someone who has played around with the techniques will be sensitized enough, I think, to what NLP is all about to pick up on a lot of the finer details, at least with multiple listenings. There is enough explicit stuff in most of Bandler's material to keep you occupied.

Then, if still interested, go to a training. There is no replacing hands-on, person-to-person training.

There is a great deal to NLP. So many different teachers, so many flavors of it. Grinder's approach is so different from Bandler's. Then you have Dilts and Delozier ... and even Tony Robbins.

It's important for an individual to know that the experience of what NLP is will be greatly influenced by who is doing the training. I disagree with some of the recommendations here, but the long and short of it is personal preference and learning style.

Good luck, NYC_Dweller. If you have the time and money, check out as many different people as you can.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited July 23, 2004).]






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babayada,
I was interested in checking out some of the Essential Skills cds, but apparently they've now moved on to entirely vhs. Despite your warnings, I'm still interested in finding out what they're like. So, if you'd like to get rid of the ones you bought, please drop me a line. My yahoo email name is the same as my username here (I'm sure you can figure that out).
By the way, I agree with you that Bandler (especially the earlier stuff like Frogs Into Princes and Trance-Formations) is the best out there. Still, I'll have to say that Jeffries does a good job making the transition to covert work very easy, as he's tremendously explicit about what's going on. Someone with a good background in real NLP, however, will have no problem making his stuff _far_ more effective, not just in seduction, but in life.







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Anyone familiar with NLP expert David Barron at changework.com. For those that have purchased his products how would you rate them?






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I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned Napoleon Hill and his book "Think and Grow Rich." Every concrete concept outlined in by everyone from Anthony Robbins to Zig Zigler can be found with the pages of this amazing book.

On the note of AR, I've listened to Personal Power II, and have read The Giant Within and agree that Tony is great at motivating. However, if you follow his instructions to the letter, (yes, you need to excercize too- this is KEY), chances are you will benefit from a good portion of what he teaches. I suggest going on a 30 day NLP/NAC binge listening to Robbins' PPII, read Hill's book, get audio tapes from Zigler, Brian Tracy, Napoleon Hill (the science of personal achievement - 20 tape set - check your library). Find the common thread in them all, and use what you can from each.

Oh, and most of this stuff can be found in your local library. I have not spent $1 on anything except a copy of "How to think and grow Rich," and only because I wanted to own it myself! Also, remember, if you are a skeptic and are looking for faults, you most certainly will find them. Remember that these are human beings we're talking about.

Visualization is the key element in everthing you do, positive or negative. Learn to master it, and you'll lead yourself






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NYC_Dweller ...

Try and pick up the "Awaken the Giant Within" book. The personal power tapes/cds are good too.

If you have a chance to go to a live event, please consider it. Do a firewalk event. It will be something you remember for the rest of your life. And I'll bet that won't be the most amazing thing you do that seminar.

Tony's stuff has changed over the years. The earlier stuff had a lot more sales, go-get-em-tiger stuff. The later material talks more about balance.






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Balance like getting rid of a wife because she's getting older and exchanging her for a younger model with fake boobs that you paid for?

I've lost all respect I had for Tony Robbins.

I read his books and even attended his Mastery seminar. I had some good experiences, but, really, what I got out of him was an introduction to NLP that made me want to pursue better material. I would trade 100 Robbins seminars for a few days of NLP Comprehensive.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 15, 2005).]






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Alright Tony! I bet she's glad have a relief and time off.






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Yes, it might have been a good thing for her.

At the Mastery seminar, Tony was talking about reasonable tips for time management, like having a servant take note of the times Tony uses the car so he could have, you know, the car started before hand, so he didn't have to waste time finding which pocket he had the keys in, take them out, and turn the key in the ignition. It's things like that that save the precious moments in our lives and allow us time to really stop and smell the roses.







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