Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Anthony Robbin's Products?

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Originally posted by HSteinfeld:
I agree with the general opinion: Tony Robbins is a good motivator, but he sure doesn't know how to teach solid NLP techniques.

For true problem solving, I recommend Dr. Michael Hall and Rev. Bobby Boddenheimer, both of www.neurosemantics.com

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Tony Robbins made the smart decision to depart from the NLP crowd, even though he masterered and applied many NLP tecbiques in his products and serveice. That separates him from other NLP-ers. NLP is all about getting the results, not about the forms, originalities, theories; to that end, Tony Robbins did the right thing and the outcome is that he is the most successful individul on earth who profits from NLP.

I do also agree that Tony Robbins is good in motivating people but he doesn't give them tools to getting the results. His goal was to motivate people and made himself rich, and accordingly he is recognized as a great motivator, and only a motivator. I rather go to a good teacher who is result oriented and take pride in seeing his puples achieving the intended results in their lives.

peace and love to all.

When you say:

NLP is all about getting the results, not about the forms, originalities, theories

What exactly do you mean?

I agree that NLP is about getting results, of course. But not about the forms, originalities, theories?

NLP started as a process of modeling. This process yielded several patterns that had been modeled after examples of excellence in human behavior. Many people equate NLP with the patterns NLP generated, but at heart NLP is a method of modeling and reproducing excellence.

I do not know what you mean by forms and originalities, but NLP is very much about the spirit of the people from whom the patterns originated. There is a lot of the spirit of Bandler and/or Grinder in those who teach it. There is a lot of Milton Erickson, Virginia Satir, and Gregory Bateson. NLP is very much about form in the sense that it emphasizes form over content.

Honestly, your post does not make much sense to me.

As far as Tony's movement away from NLP: 1) The movement was a financial decision, I think, during a time when there was a lot of dispute over NLP being intellectual property, and 2) he still incorporates a hell of a lot of it in what he does.

Tony's financial success does not come from moving away from NLP, it comes from him being a shrewd businessman. He knows how to reach people, he knows how to tell them what they want to hear.

Many people who are into NLP are very much NOT into the status quo. This can make them somewhat unpopular. Tony is all about the status quo. He's all about materialism. He's all about your desire to look like a model. He's all about helping you make yourself into what society tells you you should be. Really. That's why he's so popular. He knows how to ride on the waves of consensus while making people feel he's all about their individuality.

That's my estimate, anyway.

Babayada,

Thanks for your comments. When I wrote orms, originalities, theories, I meant status quo. Here we split the opinion: I believe Tony departed from NLP status quo, he combines NLP techniques with other techniques to accomplish the results he wants, without conforming himself to the purity and status quo of NLP or other doctrins. I am not judging the morality of his business practice, I neither condeem nor support his practice, he accomplished great financial success, that makes other NLP-ers unhappy and made him the target of criticism, that's to be expected. What impresses me is his ability to take what he needs from NLP, without overly conrcerned about the forms,originalities, theories and other status quo, to help him accomplish his goals, and he have shown to the world that he has the great results!

You think that "Many people who are into NLP are very much NOT into the status quo.", that's fine with me; you meantioned NLP modeling, patterns, proccesses, spirit, and many big names associated with it, to me, these are forms, these are status quo's, and my personal belief is that NLP hould not be these "mean", but rather, it should be more about the "ends", the results!

I appreciate that you have a different view than mine, and your pointing out that my post didn't make seens to you, that's a good thing. If we all have the same view about everything, there is no need for a "discussion forum" like this one.

peace and love to all.

Ok, now I see what you mean.

I agree that there is an NLP status quo of sorts.

There are also a lot of people who have taken NLP and diverged from it. Not so many NLP purists exist as they used to. People will typically take from this, take from that, and come up with their own way of doing things.

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Originally posted by babayada:

There are also a lot of people who have taken NLP and diverged from it. Not so many NLP purists exist as they used to. People will typically take from this, take from that, and come up with their own way of doing things.

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there you go! Just take a look at Paul Scheele and LSC products here, the core is NLP (my personal opinion only, Paul might not agree), but they are unique in their own class.

I find that all guru's are disapointing when met face to face.(Obvious generalization on my part.) I'm sure Mr. Bandler has many flaws. Nowadays NLP is considered alternative psychology,but most mainstream shrinks have used it. It may even be called pseudo-science. So is EFT TFT and most of David Hawkin's theories. But they work. In Frog's into Prince's B & G said NLP was a pack of lies, but if you act as if you believe it it(NLP) will work as well as or even better than most traditional therapies. So again it's the message that's important, not the messenger's flaws and ideosyncracies. So thanx Richard, John,Tony, Bob,Judith,etc.and Leslie too.

Well, now, I have to disagree here.

In some instances, the messenger IS the message.

You can find the same material presented by different sources, and in sampling this info from multiple sources you can sense a deep structure or underlying pattern to it.

However, the identity of the presenter is very important. We are humans learning from other humans. Personality often plays a large part in how the information is delivered and how it is received. Information doesn't live in a vacuum, it is tied to context. The presenter, especially if the presenter has a strong presence, is pretty much a big part of the experience, and we learn from experience, not disembodied information as in some sort of Platonic form.

My beliefs, of course.

Point well taken. All my learning of NLP has come from books and websites. I've never been to a training and probably have a limited perception of this fascinating science.

Tony apparently helps a lot of people, and many like him. I'm sure meeting him in person is different than listening to his stuff.

Personally, if you're desperate for help, his stuff can feel overwhelming. It's like, there's so much to do. But he's excellent reference. He's a human library of self-improvement methods and perception.

I myself was surprised at his new marriage. I don't know exactly what's his intentions, but I trust he really thought it through. Remember, he's not a God, he's only human, like the guy around the corner, except with unreasonably high energy. We all are.

Is his new wife's boobs really that much bigger? LOL, just playin...

To have someone open a door to a ball room doesn't make you a good dancer. In the the ballroom, you hear music, enter an ambiance, meet all kind of people: The life is yours helped by the door opener.

Tony Robbins sell discovery in his light. NLP this author or another, you advanced to the door and the author fires you up to dance. You can sit, talk, sing, work, meet people in different ways and avoid others. If the Band director offend you, the door opener is not to blame.

People enjoy life in the light they see fit: Another ball room presented by another door opener also have it's chaos.

I make this analogy to say that Tony's fired me in a model to build my value system, recognize my belief and take action. His teaching says that I have to make my own choices because he doens't consider himself a guru or an hypnotist. He teach to make my own decision faced with my life situation, environment, goal and take action.

Tony did what he thought he had to do. I do not agree divorce as a value in relationship. He incenced Becky often on his audios, he's valuing money, he takes opportunities from authors and telecommunication paradigm, so can I.

While I cannot value all his views, I can value what he's yapping about. His views opened my eyes with ears that listened. But once I am in the room, it's my dance.

I enjoy your ballroom and company.

Cheers.