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#15271 10/26/04 09:17 AM
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I am in my fourth year of Holosync meditation. I have had great results. Previously, I had meditated in the traditional manner for twenty years. I have found that Holosync takes me deeper.
But I agree with Babayada, the pricing is exorbitant. After the first year, I seldom used the helpline. It also annoys me that Bill Harris has brought out an NLP based course to go along with Holosync. This should be included. The fact that Holosync takes ten years, is not the problem. Each level should be $50 at the most.
In England we have an Austrailian arts critic,Clive James. James once said 'Why do people or groups who promise enlightenment always have one eye on your wallet'. Nobody denies anyone the right to make a good living, but ripping people off is not on.
After the next two levels are up (Purification 2) I am quitting the program. I am very happy with the results, but not with the price.






#15272 10/26/04 07:07 PM
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Holosync works. The Internal Map of Reality Expander helps speed up changing the psychological MUCK that we all have so that we get to the good parts of our lifes adventure faster. (hint: for an example of this muck, read through all these posts on this thread. lol)

If there was a way to use Holosync not just to stop feeling bad but to help create/enjoy whatever you want in life, wouldn't you want to do it sooner than later???

I use both Holosync and am taking the online course and all I can say is AWESOME. I'm changing fast and loving it. Stay miserable all you who want to.

PS. I dont like how Bill markets either but I do love his products, his company and his dedication to helping others. I have received personal email replies from him with this course. I cant imagine how with all the people involved. The company bends over backwards to help no matter what I need The Centerpointe Retreat CDs with Bills talks are life changing themselves. His book Thresholds of the Mind is too. So who cares if I dont like his marketing. There is too good to like to even worry about this one small thing.







#15273 10/26/04 07:14 PM
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I relate to your love for Holosync. I don't like their marketing either but I must say I also love their online course. It complements Holosync in that is helps speed up the awakening process/becoming more conscious. It has nothing to do with HS not working or being effective, just helping a little with the process.

In my experience, that means if it would have taken 5 years to get over being miserable using HS and then 4 years of positive mediation with HS. Now I get 2 years of using HS and the Online course to quit being miserable and 7 years of 'who knows where this adventure is leading' mediations. I cannot say enough about the good of the online course!

Either way HS is awesome!

quote:
Originally posted by Tono:
Hi All

First of let me make it clear thay I am a HS user of two years and have been very satisfied with my results to date. They have been no more and no less than CRI claimed in their marketing spiel. At this point I do feel that I will see HS through to the end.

Now for my main criticism of HS!!! When I signed up HS was called the "End" as in, the end of your search for self development. I believed that then and still believe it because my results have pleased me. However, just lately I have been plagued or should I say SPAMMED by CRI advertising self development courses which Bill Harris seems to enthuse about. Sedona, relationships and now some bloody crap about voice training which costs the earth and the only people ina position to purchase it are movie stars!! (I'll be Back)

I feel that advertising all these courses is unacceptable. If HS is the product that it claims to be then all of the issues dealt with by these other courses will be dealt with by HS in due course. One of the biggest problems I can see with HS is that it takes more time to work than most people are prepared to give. This is unfortunate because HS really does work given enough time.

So! CRI, lay off the other courses and promote/defend HS more. I have been increasingly alarmed at the negative feedback of late. There was a time when it was almost impossible to find a negative word about HS.









#15274 10/26/04 09:08 PM
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Nick,

I am now five years on hs and at purification
2. I too made some remarkable changes for the better over the years and especially over
the last year.

When I joined the hs program I found the price for the complete course (inner circle)
actually very reasonable.

Compared of what I had paid before in other systems, most of them where run by former scientologists.

For instance I paid for one course, "codes course" US $ 2.000,00. The course lasted for
one week but I got instnat results from. The phone started ringing while I was on the course and I doubled my income over the next
year.

I did also an Avatar course which costs now
$ 3.000 - 3.500 for a ten day course. The reason these spiritual courses are so high
priced is that they want only people who are realy commited.

By the way I never got the impression the Centerpointe claims to have spiritual goals.
A survey among participants showed that most of us join the has program more for practical
advantages such as financial security, harmoy
etc.

Smeagel:

I am too on Bill's online course and love it in spite of having to do a hell of a lot of homework.

babayada:

Reading your posts here on the LS board I get
the impression that you are on a kind of vendetta against Bill Harris.
Therefore you should be aware that you probably blank out a lot of information which
might not support your viewpoint.








#15275 10/27/04 01:35 AM
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Smeagle,

I am glad holosync works so well for you.

With regard to blanking out information, I don't have a vendetta against Bill Harris. I have a big moral issue with what he and others in his company are doing. I agree that when you have a big emotional reaction to something, you tend to focus on supporting information and delete the rest. I do take the time to read differing points of view several times, to pick up information I may have missed.

I am curious about this Map of Reality Expander. Tell us more about it and why you think it's so effective.

In your post, Smeagle, I saw an implication that if you do not use Holosync, then you're miserable and your life is not an adventure. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am sure there are people who use Holosync, even the advanced levels, who are miserable, just like there are people who don't who are miserable. And, of course, there are people using it who are gleeful, just like there are those who don't use it who are gleeful.

I have to say, that it appears to me that people who have been doing it for a long time appear to be happy and balanced. You sound like you have found something that works, and if you can afford it financially, then I am happy for you. I still think, however, that you're being ripped in terms of money. It looks to me that they are charging approximately 5 times as much as they should for their products.

Look at what LSC is doing with the Abundance for Life course. The course is designed extremely well, to provoke responses through merely listening to it. That is, merely following the course teaches the behaviors and thought patterns you're supposed to learn. Linguistically, like paraliminals, it is a work of art. I don't agree with all of it, but they are providing a lot of value.

The cost of the course, 12 CDs, is $325 sans discount. That's around $27.00 per CD. Pricey, but not insane. You're getting seriously good information and several paraliminals. You're getting material presented in many different ways. Normal "lecture" style, the "fast finish" mode, and through paraliminals. Even with the discount, I felt a little "youch!" in my wallet when I got it, but I am glad I did.

Contrast that to $80 per cd. Abundance of Life would be $960 for the non-deluxe version. I would never in a million years buy it for that price. I would stop buying LSC products if they charged that much for the information. I'd look at them as if they were money grubbing pigs, more interested in money than sharing and helping people. I mean, think of the amount of people they'd alienate.

I just don't know, Smeagle. I am really happy for you and your progress, but it still does not change the way I feel about it. If you brought me someone who cured their cancer through Holosync I'd still feel the same way ... even worse. I'd feel like these SOBs are more interested in getting money than providing people with the means to help themselves! And, in fact, that is the case. Why else charge so much for something that costs little to produce?

Avatar only $3,500, huh? So having money to burn is the same as being dedicated? That's ridiculous. You may believe that reasoning, but, seriously, being able to afford it is not equivalent to being dedicated. That's BS.

It's $3,500 because people are willing to pay that much. I believe their product inducing altered states probably has a lot to do with the willingess of people to pay those kinds of prices. More than a little indoctrination is going on.

Wow. I am simply amazed. The more I hear about the behavior of this company, the more I hate them. They truly are money grubbing pigs. Jeez.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 26, 2004).]






#15276 10/27/04 02:54 AM
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"I did also an Avatar course which costs now
$ 3.000 - 3.500 for a ten day course. The reason these spiritual courses are so high
priced is that they want only people who are realy commited."

I certainly do not believe that a high price
causes more commitment. In a discussion with an Avatar Master he come to this conclusion.

However, most people certainly think about it
a lot before doing an Avatar course and there are less spontanious buyers. Also right
in the middle of the course the is a decision
point where the student can decide to continue or not. (if he does not get results)

If not then he will get his money back.

I still think that babayada is on a vendetta even if he calls it now a moral point. Otherwise why bother. People are inteligent enough to decide what is good for them or not.








#15277 10/27/04 04:30 AM
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Vendetta?

Vendetta a la Miriam Webster online:

1 : BLOOD FEUD
2 : an often prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts or exchange of such acts <waged a personal vendetta against those who opposed his nomination>

I suppose, in terms of the second definition I do have a vendetta against centerpointe, yes. But I think the word carries connotations in the way that you are using it that I do not think are correct.

I do not have some personal grievance against Bill Harris. He didn't kill my parents when I was five. I haven't been in a cave, putting on tights and pretending I am a bat or some other scary animal, and I do not entertain revenge fantasies against him or his company ... aside from the one about the marketing that I posted earlier and was called "sick" for.

Really, does someone have to be warped in some way to feel very strongly about a company that is ripping people off?

The core of it is a mental image I have of Bill Harris and others in Centerpointe enjoying the money and secretly thinking that everyone of his customers is a sucker.

That is the crux of it.

Let us say that one of your friends makes a remarkable discovery about human kind and the human condition that could really help people alleviate much of the suffering of their lives and add immeasurable enjoyment. Lets say that the method required a little bit of money to do. Now lets say this friend starts giving it to people ... but only the ones that pay him $2000.00 for it.

What would you think of your friend?

Lets also say he comes up with MORE discoveries and starts learning about the discoveries others have made and starts repackaging those. Say he starts selling those for even more.

You might start to suspect that this friend is a selfish, money-grubbing pig and that when he ups the prices he's performing an experiment on just how much people are willing to pay.

Ok, Centerpointe cares? Lets see them lower their prices.

Let's assume that Holosync and the Centerpointe philosophy really is the schizniat when it comes to personal development.

There is poverty and crime in the world, isn't there? With all the money Centerpointe is making, heck, why not start programs for the poor, those in jail, those who REALLY need this kind of stuff. Are they doing that? Let me in on it, cause I don't think they are.

Truth is, they don't really care. Sure, some staff members probably do. But by and large they want your freaking money.

Bill Harris might be so friendly because it may help him sleep at night ... actually believe he is being helpful and not a greedy, money worshiping parasite. Also, it helps to tend the crops. They'll yield more.

A truly spiritual person and organization would act *very* differently than Centerpointe. When several businesses started sending me Centerpointe material I knew something fishy was up. It's amazing. I don't know how they do it or what they are doing. I wonder if they pay companies to let them send material "from" other companies?

I don't know.

But, really, I don't know anyone personally from Centerpointe. What you're seeing here is moral outrage at greed. Perhaps your unwillingness to see it as such reveals something about you rather than something about me, hmmm?

I go on about corporations like this, too. You should have seen me at my last job when they were laying off people left and right in inter-related companies for which I provided tech support. Greed greed greed.

Oh yeah, about money back guarantees:

Why do so many companies offer them? Because they know that it is human nature not to take advantage of it.

Centerpointe knows damn well that when someone makes an investment like that in time and money, they are NOT going to ask for a refund.

Why? Ego is one thing. No one likes to admit that he has been a fool. Another is perceived value. People will, in fact, perceive that they have gotten value out of most courses and products offered by most companies, and will feel some guilt when thinking about sending materials back for a full refund. Also, there is a feeling that "this object is mine" when you purchase something, hence there is a feeling of loss when you give it back for a refund. Also, there may be a feeling of personal failure.

Companies know full and well, like Casinos, that there are acceptable losses. Offering a full refund after a period of time is one of those. Don't think they are being fair and caring, they are not. GREED motivates money back refunds, both ways. It instills in the consumer the idea that they are getting something for nothing. It removes the inhibition against making a large purchase.

Man, if half of what I am hearing here is really how some of you think, you are seriously conditioned consumers. I admit that I am as susceptible as the rest of you, but I realize and admit it when I see that I've been a sucker. It helps me to wake up sometimes and say, “Uhhh, no thanks.”

Don't be a sucker. I mean, it's one thing to say, “Yeah, I've taken a punch ... but the end result is worth it to me, but, yeah, to an extent I've been a sucker.” It's another to buy into marketing crapola (even to the point where you defend it!) hook, line, and sinker. Being a sucker and not even being aware of it, lying to yourself about it, is seriously bad.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 27, 2004).]






#15278 10/27/04 09:15 AM
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Although I have had great results from Holosync, I do feel that I have been had. There is no possible justification for the prices charged. The people who need the help most, are being priced out of the market. It reminds me of the Scientologists who charge outrageous prices, use heavyweight marketing and celebrity endorsements.
Holosync as Bill Harris, fairly, says is one of many ways which can aid personal growth. It is not the only way.
Compare Holosync with Gary Craig (www.emofree.com) who gives away tons of information on his website, and must barely cover costs for his video CD sets. He even grants buyers permission to make so many copies.
I do not deny anyone the right to make money, but there is no way that Holosync can justify their prices either practically or morally.







#15279 10/27/04 11:16 AM
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I don't think Centerpointe would ever come up with something like auditing protocol R2-45. As much as I dislike Centerpointe, it's sort of like comparing P.T. Barnum with Hitler.

The greed is the same, but basic human decency is still there.

But don't feel too bad, Nick. I am sure you got a lot of benefits, and there ARE means by which you can continue your progress without paying an arm and a leg.

You'll never fall prey to the same tricks again, either. You're wiser.

I got the Awakening Prologue despite years and years of simply throwing away the Centerpointe material. I would always think, "Sounds good, but man ... they are charging ridiculous prices. This has GOT to be a scam."

Later on, a friend of mine who knew Bill Harris had a Centerpointe tape. I told him I'd always been curious about them. I listened and it really had a profound effect on me. My friend told me that they had made special recordings just for him and that the tape I listened to was a really deep one.

After getting the Awakening Prologue and listening to it for a while, I read over their material. I read more and more, and a sinking feeling came over me. I realized what they were doing and that I had been had. I determined to be vocal about it (hence my vendetta and alter ego as Anti-Centerpointe Man) from then on.

But we've all been had in some way.

One thing I do now, before paying a lot for something new, is look for negative opinions and criticism about it on the net. There usually is.

I go back and forth between the pro and con sources, am much better informed, and then make my own, more informed, decision.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 27, 2004).]






#15280 10/27/04 02:21 PM
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A tip for The Abundance for Life folks watching this thread. This is an excellent topic to apply the Inquiry Process on.

Email me if you would like tips on how to practice on this topic.

Alex






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