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#15301 11/22/04 03:31 PM
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Do you think there is a qualitative difference to how you listen to holosync vs. Mozart or Bach or whoever?

That is, people will sit and quietly listen to holosync via headphones, but will listen to Bach in the background while doing other activities.

I am familiar with the Mozart effect and how the increase in IQ is temporary. It's amazing to me that there is a change in IQ from listening to music at all.






#15302 11/23/04 10:20 AM
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Good point Babayada. When I listen to Holosync I am meditating, 100% focused on the sound. I don't genrally listen to classical music when I am busy, but I certainly do not listen with the same intensity. If you are feeling down, listen to the Mozart composition used in the movie 'Trading Places'. (Told you I was'nt an expert.)It will soon raise your mood.






#15303 11/25/04 04:03 AM
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Babayada,
Thanks for the info regarding used HS cd's and bwgn.exe. I'm currently enrolled in the program(Purifying Level I). Were you ever a participant? I'm becoming disenchanted with the program as none of the promised benefits have materialized and I'm already 5 levels in! I'm putting off calling their help-line because I'm sure all I'll hear is "keep trying" before they try to sell me the next level. Do you have any suggestions on any other products that actually deliver? Any info you provide would be most helpful. Thanks!

Mindsurfer






#15304 11/30/04 10:22 PM
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MindSurfer,

My bias is towards using traditional meditation techniques. I am certainly not the most experienced in this regard. Shr33m has a wealth of experience in this area, and his advice would probably be better than mine.

That being said, pick up The Relaxation Response by Herbert Benson or one of the works of Patricia Carrington on Clinical Standardized Meditation.

Just because something is touted as an amazingly effective modern technology does not mean that it is any better than tried and true methods of meditation or even that it will give you what it promises to deliver.

Just investigate various forms of meditation and find one that fits for you.

I've gone from using a mantra to simply being mindful of a mental pulse that occurs within me. I found that the mantra would always sort of be digested by my mind and end up as a sort of pulse. So, I just do directly to that pulse and be mindful of it. After a while, the pulse goes away and I am simply mindful of whatever is going on in an acceptant manner.

I don't think you need to rely on tapes. And I think that the notion that binaural beat CDs or tapes are better than traditional methods is a bogus one.

Traditional meditation taught by whom? What forms? Because someone has had trouble with a form of meditation and found holosync to be better does not mean that holosync is better than traditional meditation techniques because it is a "better" or "more precise" technology. It just means one kind of meditation didn't work for someone (for whatever reasons) and that holosync did. Ok. I would think that users of holosync in some cases will find themselves graduating from it to more traditional, established methods with a long and rich history.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited November 30, 2004).]






#15305 12/06/04 05:16 AM
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I've also meditated for 20+ years, and living within a strong inner self has added much to my journey. HS adds even more, yet it is simply one tool of many that enhance our quality of life.

However, I admit to being somwhat puzzled, babayada, for why you continue with HS when you critize it almost endlessly. If it's useless, why bother? If it's okay, why the rant?

Also, what's this about Bill Harris ripping us off? Who forces you to buy, use, and continue to buy his products? It's starting to look like it's time for some truth telling and the placement of personal responsibility exactly where it belongs.







#15306 12/07/04 09:12 PM
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DCO,

I enjoy the back and forth of the banter and feel strongly about the subject.

EDIT:

Oh, and I misunderstood ... I don't use holosync. I used it for about 6 months and then stopped after I realized I was going to be taken for a ride by continuing.


[This message has been edited by babayada (edited December 15, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited December 15, 2004).]






#15307 12/17/04 11:48 AM
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It's so important to be realistic about personal growth programs, no matter how convincing their material is. I don't think skepticism is necessary, but a healthy level of critical thinking is likely to save anyone alot of time and alot of money when it comes to these sorts of programs.
I've just bought Awakening Prologue and I've been using it for only a few days. I had it recommended by three people independently of each other before I really started to look into it for myself, and once I did, I read over as much material as I could get my hands on before I handed over the cash. From what I know about the brain, and what I understand about meditation, I have summised that Centerpointe are really leaders in the field. I truly believe that I've bought the best product of its kind. I've persevered with a few different kinds of meditation in the past, finding that a Buddhist mantra type meditation was the most effective for me. I know when meditation is 'working' when I feel a sense of elation, almost a literal, physical upliftment. My body lightens, feeling almost like a balloon, and I tend to see light in front of my eyes. Where I only got flashes of this feeling with mantra meditation in the midst of hours of difficult concentration and relative discomfort, I have to say that the Awakening Prologue CD's get me there almost instantly, and I'm not even started with the Immersion Phase yet. Very impressive stuff.
However, like most people on the forum evidently, I'm not too impressed with the marketing strategy Centerpointe have used and continue to use, though its clear that it works since the company continues to expand. I'm also not impressed with the list of benefits attributed to Holosync technology: increased happiness, prosperity, capacity for intimacy, etc... While I agree that meditation can help to make all of these potentials real, meditation is not a formulaic guarantor to 'success'. Rather, I think its something that needs to be humbly viewed as a part of an entire way of living. Periods of deep relaxation are useless unless you decide to really do something with the active time. Reaching theta and delta states is useless if you continue to choose dysfunctional paths, beat yourself up, talk yourself down, etc... Where I believe, and have experienced, that Holosync technology makes 'meditation' far easier, the idea that it's 'The End': the one and only program required for healing and betterment, is a crock. There IS no one and only program, there's no answer, there are only ever tools: tools that need to be tried and tested to see what works best.
I'm also in partial agreement about how much it costs to do the program: given the cost to the company, the price is utterly exorbitant. A bit of an ethical quandary, really. My solution is that once I'm done with Awakening Prologue, I'm going to sell it to a friend for slightly cheaper, who'll sell it on once she's finished, and we'll do the same with the rest of the program. It could ultimately go on forever! (I'm unsure about how the higher levels work, with the personalised affirmations etc...? So unsure about whether we could puchase the whole program in this way, but I like the idea of it) Despite the quandary, I think its important to keep in mind that Centerpointe are in a tricky market, especially now that its so easy to simply burn a CD and pass it on. This, and the rather specialised market, means that Centerpointe probably aren't making quite the billions we think they are, though there's still no real excuse for charging so much.
For the moment I'm just enjoying it, and learning everything I can. Bit concerned about the new thread re: beta brain waves and brain frying, etc... though!!!!






#15308 01/20/05 09:14 PM
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Hi,

My two cents' worth about all that's been going on in ths rather long thread.

THE END or not THE END :
I think they simply gave up this name as it had bad connotations attached to it. Might have seemed a good idea in the beginning : "THE END of your search for a guru", for example.

Regarding the Price :
Has anyone here studied marketing ?
I'm a consultant, and I have to tell you that from a professional point of view, Bill Harris's strategy is superb ! If his goal is to make as many people as possible enter the program (for whatever reason, be they totally altruistic, like "Let's bring relief to as many people as possible", or totally greedy, as "let's get as many people's money as possible"), then he is really doing it extremely well.

Here is the chief point of my argument : what is free has no value !

The meaning is : I'll attach strong value, and therefore be very committed to going through it all, to a program that I've paid dear money for, and I'll try for 10 days and ultimately forget about when I don't get instant results a program that I got for free.
The ONE big problem with Holosync is that the meditation is so effective that it brings a LOT of overwhelm before important shifts happen in the way we see and manage life, so you need a LOT of motivation to persevere and go through it nevertheless. The fact that you've paid a lot for the program gives you a big part of that motivation.
(BTW : to me this chaos and reorganization stuff is NOT pseudo-scientific baloney. I've experienced it EXACTLY as it is described years before knowing about Holosync. At that time it involved an enormous emotional crisis, and personal work that was forced upon me by extreme unhappiness about my life.)

All in all, I think BillHarris is doing things the right way. If he gave away the program for what it costs, he wouldn't get as many customers as he does now. That's one of the many paradoxes of modern economics science : in many cases, the classical law of supply and demand doesn't apply : You don't get more customers by lowering your price, you actually get more customers by raising your price, because a high price point creates superior perceived value in the eye of the consumer.

Cheers to all,

Erwan






#15309 01/20/05 10:13 PM
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Hi again,

Lots of people wrote about he Speech Improvement course cross-advertized by Bill Harris. I'm interested in that. Could anyone post the directions to the website of the company that sells it ?

Thanks,

Erwan






#15310 01/21/05 12:13 AM
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What is free has no value?

Completely absurd.

Tell that to the open source community, who have been collectively producing high quality products for the general public for years and years, free of charge.

It could be argued that what is free is of infinite value.

Greed has its uses, but so does curiosity, doing something for its own sake, generosity, and sharing.

What you do for your own reasons, not simply motivated by a contrived sense of needing to because of perceived value (arbitrarily created by the manufacturer much like certain cards in games like Pokemon), is best. Internal motivation from a true perception of value is always best.

I've noticed that people in the marketing business are so awash in their own BS that they start to believe it. It helps, I guess, to think you're doing someone a favor when you're bending them over.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 20, 2005).]






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