Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Is NLP the ultimate way ?

Babayada
Thanks for the recommendations. I am based in England. Richard Bandler is a regular over here, so I will take your advice. A friend of mine recommended Core Transformations.

Be careful with Bandler.

His methods are pretty strange, sometimes. Upon reflection, I think he is not above putting people through a little hell in order to "improve" them (or give them what is his idea of what they need).

If you can watch him work in a seminar on video, look at how he marks out messages to certain people. You'll see that what he marks out can be pretty shocking. Sometimes I didn't know whether he was actually trying to help or just play with people. Only he knows.

My problem when I saw him, I think, was that I was very naive and doe-eyed. I thought of him as something of a benevolent hero. I was shocked to find out that this guy has serious teeth.

If you go see Bandler, your experience will be unforgetable, and you'll bring back a lot of abilities you might not know you have. He does a lot of "unconscious installation," and if you're motivated you'll definitely pick up stuff just by being around him.

I went and saw Bandler and then went to NLP Comprehensive. It helped bring a lot out to a conscious level, and I have to say I learned an awful lot from Bandler, but he also screwed with my head.

If you see him, I'd love to get your impressions of the experience. I met some amazing individuals at the Bandler seminar. I think the field just attracts these folk.

Babayada
I may go on a less high level seminar first. I will go to one run by Bandler, when I have a bit more experience. In this country his seminars are arranged by Paul McKenna, a very knowledgable hypnotist. McKenna never stands still,he is always looking to extend his knowledge. One of the seminars Bandler offers has a cap of about 12 people. Before the seminar, people are asked to send in a wish list of what they want. Bandler then constructs the seminar around these wants.
In reading his books, I have found him very amusing.
Anyway thanks for the advice.

Nick

Babayada,

After more thinking, I agree with your earlier message where you said NLP is a great tool, but is not THE Way.

As you mentioned, figuring out the what and why something needs to be improved or fixed in much more important than the process of using the tools for improvement or fixing.

To be able to look at oneself objectively requires one to be at a "higher" level ("looking at the big picture", essentially from a more mature level), which requires one to have a followed a process of growth, which would not have been achieved had one jumped into NLP directly.

For me it has been through meditation, LSC's paraliminals and courses, philosophy and some other processes and techniques, that I am at this point, and I don't think I am anywhere close yet! Above all, I think it takes time and a lot of life experience.

This morning I was listening to the Abundance for Life Main CD 1 where Paul Scheele says something like "trying to change or improve any aspect of your being using any techniques is not always successful, and can sometimes leads to even more dysfunctional behavior".

This is definitely mind blowing, and is more food for thought and contemplation!

Cheers.

Put another way, self-improvement may actually be an insidious form of self-hatred. It can be acting out a belief that "I am not good enough" or "I am unlovable" in a way that affirms it.

Stephen Gilligan went on about that at length during his visit to NLPU when I took my master prac. in NLP.

I think, however, that going into NLP doesn't necessarily distract you ultimately from learning anything, I mean, it might be part of the path, you know?

Perhaps it is all nonsense given a certain point of view and that we're all really already there and just have to realize it. But in the meantime, what do you do? Is that what Don Juan meant when by controlled folly?

There's something to be said about natural approaches and discovering your own path through life. Going slow can be a good approach. But then again, there's something to be said about going fast and using all this technology, too.

Go ahead an explore it, but keep in mind all the rest of this stuff.

Holy Crap Babayada; that is some really nice stuff there.

babayada have you worked with any of Jerry Stocking's stuff. He used NLP to take himself apart rather then using it as an additive or preferential outcome/behaviour technology.

Learning Strategies used to have one of his books in the Recommended Readings section of this website.

quote:

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If combinations of technologies are more powerful, which is the optimum combination, if there is one? (keeping in mine the old adage, that what fits one is not necessarily what is the best for everyone...)[/B]

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Right, in our market-driven society, everything tends to be mass-produced and packaged for the average John Q. Public. It's better to customize for each individual as YMMV.

But to respond to your query, the next step on the infinite ladder would be the meridian-based therapies of Energy Psychology. It is based on the concept that all emotional and physical problems are characterized by a perturbation in a person's energy field. Energy psychotherapy was started by Roger Callahan with his Thought Field Therapy when he applied Traditional Chinese Medicine principles (hehe, now he gives seminars with Richard Bandler). Sylvia Hartmann is also big on combining NLP with EFT. Although more gentle than acupressure, the leading edge of MET is to not use any physical tapping on any meridians using techniques like Instant BSFF, Emotrance, Z-Point Process, etc., to get faster results than months of conventional therapy.

As an example, the traditional method of endlessly repeating affirmations every day for a minimum of three weeks is not very effective if you kinesiologically test weak for the affirmation when you could install it into the subconscious in less than a couple of minutes using more efficient methods of energy work and not waste any more of your precious time on it. Faster results in less time and less effort - works for me.

I have some really mixed feelings about Jerry Stocking.

I listened to his IC seminar on tape as well as portions of the Very Important Patterns seminar on CD.

My take on him is this: don't go to him for content, go to him for form. His response to someone is often a form of manipulation that is messing with their pattern of thought and behavior rather than a means of conveying linguistic information. That is, the content of the dialogue may be inaccurate garbage, but its effect on the person will get them to think and behave differently.

For instance, he will shift meta-programs, frames, rep systems, etc. when talking to someone and this will typically fry their (and your) brains.

Bandler sometimes does this, but Jerry is certainly more confusing. I think Jerry is a master of the confusion technique. You think you're following him and then the rug has been pulled from under you.

If I am not mistaken, he believes he has reached enlightenment. I don't share his belief, but I think he is one of the most naturally skilled people there is at what he does. I think he is a very intelligent person who is very slippery and skilled at manipulating people, but I don't know how beneficial listening to or attending his seminars are.

I like his Winning by Quitting book, though.

On another note, I have very little experience with energy work, but I expect shr33m is right. I think that you can introduce and/or cultivate energies that find their expression in what is right for you. I guess it has something to do with resonance and vibration ... good energy manifests in forms that are in tune with your essential nature. Makes sense to me.