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Originally posted by Frodo02:
Yes, it can take a long time before results show up. I decided to go on with the program quite early when on the Awakening Prologue. I experienced such deep meditation which I had never felt before and also some overwhelm symptoms.

This convinced me that the system was working for me. However, it took me up to level 4 when I noticed the first benefits and
positive changes.

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Gosh, some of you folks are so patient! For me, if I don't notice something--some tiny thing even--within about a month, I don't give it any more time. With Transcendental Meditation (learned lo! those many years ago), I noticed benefits within days, if not sooner. With Silva, I experienced benefits immediately. With SPQG I noticed benefits AS I was learning. (Alas, I've injured a foot, so not doing the moving QG for awhile.)

Hats off to all of you who waited for years with HS--that kind of patience is something I just don't have! (My HS gathers dust on the bookshelf--level 1, natch!)

Jeanne,

If you are familiar with NLP then you will realize that both of us are using different
strategies in order to determine what works and what does not.

For instance I noticed a very deep state of meditation which I had never experienced
before and also some overwhelm symptoms such jerking arms, crunching teeth, zonked out for a few minutes after meditating etc.

This confirmed to me that hs was working for me. I did not expect any deep and fundamental
changes during the prologue because from my experience this take time.

Also from my experience those surface changes normal don't last.

You have a different criteria to find out what works and not.

Whether yours or mine is better I don't know. Yours might be better in saving you time and try something else in the meantime
and thereby gaining more new insides. On the other hand you might miss some opportunities because you are giving up to quickly.

My approach might waste a lot of time in those circumstances when I am deluding myself and later find out that the system does not work for me. It may also lead to disappointment when something failed after many years. I actually experienced this only once so far.

Cheers,

Bless your heart, Frodo02, no criticism coming from me! I have nothing but sheer admiration for someone with the kind of patience you have. I know of the depth of experience that can be found in working as you do, and as many have done since time began. My being seems to function differently--hence, the program in question collects dust on a bookshelf.

It's not just in matters of spirit, mind you. Dear hubby and I like to work with stained glass. I do the designs and color choices. He, who has infinitely more patience than I, does the glass cutting.

I sometimes think the Universe is like a Mother with many children, each with different needs. She therefore sets out a grand banquet of infinite dishes, so that all of Her children might be nourished. Or, as one of my yoga teachers used to put it, there are as many "one true paths" as there are people to walk them.

Still, I watch people with this beautiful kind of patience, and wish I had a bit more of it!

Incidently guys.I recently asked a coupla questions to both Marc Gilson,and Bill.They are 1.Since you guys are in the process of preparing a research study,will you be using the placebo effect,and 2.Why aren't the upper levels guaranteed.After 3 tries,neither question has even been attemtped an answer.Very interesting.What do they have to hide?

Perhaps hiding is the wrong word. If you ask them a question about how to use the program or any problem you have you will get an answer quickly.

If ask about the companies policy or making suggestions what they should do with the products or how to price it you might not get
an answer.

Reason: It is not your business. Or never let an individual customer especially when in the "Hutch" category tell the company owner/manager to how to run a business.

Only the market data, the customer reaction as a whole should determine wha to do.

Cheers,

I think that Bill Harris may very well be afraid of the results of a study testing his product against the placebo effect.

Giving someone a soundtrack of simply bells and rain without any of the "psycho-acoustic" technology (but telling them that it does have it) may have a surprising effect.

How much of it is from expectation, a philosophy, personal investment (in terms of both money and ego), and a result of social influences? Probably an awful lot.

This isn't saying that the technology doesn't do anything, it obviously does. But I bet you dollars to doughnuts that a really good study using the placebo effect will show that some people get real results without the low carrier binaural beats or any of that.

I think the results of such a study would be pretty bad press for Centerpointe. Some people may say "to hell with it" and just start meditating with traditional techniques, or simply spending an hour or so of quiet time just relaxing and being aware.

I think everyone is aware of this already, though. People just choose what they choose. If holosync is something to believe in for someone, then they believe in it, they derive value from it, and it fills a place in their lives.

I've been mad at Centerpointe for a long time. I've been using holosync, giving it a chance, since I was challenged to give it another shot. It's a nice excuse to meditate. The approach is ok, I am not using any particular method of meditation during it. I simply listen and do whatever I want with my mind. It's an hour of quiet time and trance that I use however I wish.

I do like it, but I would not pay $300 a pop for more levels. My choice. If others want to, fine. It's their time and money, and it may well do an awful lot for them. If so, good.

Strangely, I found the Awakening Prologue to have a more visceral effect than Awakening Level 1.

Really, people are making their own choices about it. I am sorry I spent so much time making noise about it and being condescending. People simply make their own choices and that's that. They are usually not dupes. They are aware of the variables involved and make choices based on their available resources and will. And that, I guess, is simply that.

I believe a lot of people want the technology to do things for them that it may not for whatever reason. They paid a lot of money, and they're mad. Others, as we've seen, have experienced quite a bit of pain and suffering. I do not know whether or not these people would have had the same negative results from traditional meditation, my intuition says they probably would ... depending on the technique. I think each of these people deserve, at least, a refund and, considering the marketing, an apology.

Bill Harris is a masterful marketeer. Corey Rudl the internet entrepreneur cites Bill Harris as a example of success. Bill Harris grosses $12 million per year from Centerpointe.
Of course this does not mean that his product is invalid. I would personally vouch for it's effectiveness. But it just shows what a powerful model Mr Harris has devised.

Really, people are making their own choices about it. I am sorry I spent so much time making noise about it and being condescending. People simply make their own choices and that's that. They are usually not dupes. They are aware of the variables involved and make choices based on their available resources and will. And that, I guess, is simply that.

I believe a lot of people want the technology to do things for them that it may not for whatever reason. They paid a lot of money, and they're mad. Others, as we've seen, have experienced quite a bit of pain and suffering. I do not know whether or not these people would have had the same negative results from traditional meditation, my intuition says they probably would ... depending on the technique. I think each of these people deserve, at least, a refund and, considering the marketing, an apology.

Babayda,

Some of us are here trying to decide which choices to make (see my thread on hypnotherapy/NLP and sound/light therapy), so please keep sharing your thoughts. I'm in "overwhelm" about the myriad of choices out there. And I'm trying to make some logical decisions before I do spend a lot of money for something that doesn't work, realizing that self improvement techniques are not a "one size fits all" proposition and what works for you may not work for me.

And, for all your rants about Centerpointe (to which I take no offense, but rather take as a "buyer beware" warning), I appreciate your candor and integrity in remarking that you couldn't duplicate the quality on a "home-made" CD.

Well, I am not done my experiments yet. I am going to take the floating CD and put a .3 binaural beat at a 80hz carrier on it and see how that works.

I am thinking the quality of the background sounds might have a lot to do with it.

babyada:

"I think that Richard Bandler may very well be afraid of the results of a study testing his product against the placebo effect.

Giving someone a rousing, conventional "self-help" seminar(but telling them that it is NLP) may have a surprising effect.

How much of it is from expectation, a philosophy, personal investment (in terms of both money and ego), and a result of social influences? Probably an awful lot.

This isn't saying that the technology doesn't do anything, it obviously does. But I bet you dollars to doughnuts that a really good study using the placebo effect will show that some people get real results without the "meta-programming", "re-patterning", or any of that.

I think the results of such a study would be pretty bad press for Richard Bandler and NLP. Some people may say "to hell with it" and just start going to Zig Ziglar seminars, or simply spending an hour or so of quiet time telling themselves that they are a winner."

Seriously, I obviously don't agree with this point of view, but I don't agree with YOUR point of view either.

Before you tell me why I'm wrong, why don't you show me your proof that Richard Bandler and NLP is anything more than a conventional "you-can-do-it" approach??
You don't have any, other than the certainty of the experiences and benefits you have received from NLP in your life.
That is why the whole schema and theory of it is real to you and meaningful...not because of something you read in "Scientific American"...

The thing is, I don't doubt your experiences; I just don't want you to doubt mine with holosync either.