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Let's start this post by saying that I am a user of Holosync, going on three years now. Recently, I read a book that profoundly struck me because it sounded like the author was describing Holosync and Centerpointe's marketing strategy. That book was "The 48 Laws of Power," by Robert Greene. Specifically, Law 27, " Play on People's Need to Create a Cultlike Following" where he lists 5 steps to creating a cult or selling snake oil.

For Example, see the following excerpts:

Step 1: "Keep it Vague, Keep it Simple:" ...create the impression of specialized knowledge..the combination of vague promises, cloudy but alluring concepts, and fiery enthusiasm will stir people's souls and a group will form around you.

Step 2: "Emphasize the Visual and the Sensual over the Intellectual." "you might even tickle the mind, perhaps by using new technological gadgets to give yoru cult a pseudo-scientific veneer."

Step 3: "Borrow the Forms of ORganized Religion to Structure the Group." "Create rituals for your followers; organize them into a hierarchy, ranking them in grades of sanctity, and giving thme names and titles that resound with religious overtones;ask them for sacrifices that will fill your coffers."

Step 5: "Set Up an Us-Verses-Them Dynamic." "Make sure your followers believe they are part of an exclusive club."

I'd strongly encourage other Holosync users to read this chapter of Greene's book; I would be very interested to hear if others had the same reaction that I did. In literature, the phrase is "the Shock of Recognition."

Publius






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Thank you Publuis or Rick2004 or Fear Not or.....Hudge Dave at what other names you are using when surving the web with your mission.

You are at least consistent in your postings
and your hate of hs or Bill H.

Cheers,








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Ah, Frodo, just read the book and judge for yourself. You might recognize a little of yourself in it. To wit:

"...to strengthen this bond, manufacture the notion of a devious enemy out to ruin you. There is a force of nonbelievers that will do anything to stop you. Any outsider who tries to reveal the charlatan nature of your belief system can now be described as a member of this devious force."

"If you have no enemies, invent one. Given a straw man to react against, your followers will tighten and cohere. They have your cause to believe in and infidels to destroy."

[This message has been edited by Publius1776 (edited February 12, 2005).]






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Greene's book is pretty interesting.

I got the one on seduction, too. I like his historical anecdotes.

Another good book along these lines is The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.







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Publius,

You did recommend that book already in a thread on the Ebay forum.
I guess only your name was a bit different
"Contrarian" or. so.

Read your thread below.

Cheers,


*********************************************

Two book recommendations for Holosync users:

1. "Midnight" by Dean Koontz. Tells the story of a power-mad businessman (clearly modeled after Bill Gates) who invents a technology to improve people. Descriptions of "New People" and "Old People" "Before and After the Change." Some of the new people, however, don't take well to the procedure/technology and become known as "Regressives." Reads like a really bad case of overwhelm.

2. "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene. Particularly, Law 27, "Play on People's Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following." In this chapter Greene outlines the steps and procedures to creating a cult or selling snake oil. Some of the techniques will sound very familiar to Holosync users.

[This message has been edited by Frodo02 (edited February 12, 2005).]






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Publius

Other than you what enemies does Bill Harris/Centerpoint have?

Long term the enemy thing doesn't work. Any successful take over involves gaining the Marks trust and becoming indispensible. Then you gain control and take over the world. It's really easy strategy but alot of work.

It's much easier to inject paranoia and uncertainty, throwing wrenches in turbines.
Putting holes in peoples minds, sticking their attention. Break up harmony and peace, create stress. "The sky is falling". Gotta make a market here.

It seems obvious you are using the technic you describe to create your own cult. Gotta pick a really good enemy like the Wrestlers do or no one will notice.

Be Beautiful






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quote:
Originally posted by Frodo02:
Thank you Publuis or Rick2004 or Fear Not or.....Hudge Dave at what other names you are using when surving the web with your mission.

You are at least consistent in your postings
and your hate of hs or Bill H.

Cheers,



I am sorry Frodo, but I am not one of these other guys. I am Rick2004 here and Sailingdutchmen on the centerpointe discussionforum, so you can track all my posts.

I am a sceptic who asks questions out of insecurity with the product. That does not make me a hater of Bill Harris.







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Sorry Rick for my wrong speculation in regard to your name.

You must have copied one of Hudge Dave's thread from the Ebay board and posted it here. From that simularity I got the wrong conclusion.

Cheers,







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I'm not Publius or Fear Not either, but I still think Bill Harris and his 'harmless' technology deserves a bit more scrutiny, by feds and fans alike. I have personally found Harris to be rather economical with the truth at times, and there is no question in my mind that holosync is capable of ruining people's lives. Spend your money elsewhere, that's my advice. There are lots of wonderful and fascinating self development tools out there, and I would have to guess that not only are they almost always safer to use, but oftentimes less expensive and much more effective too. And you don't have to deal with a company run by someone like Bill Harris.








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quote:
Originally posted by Publius1776:
Recently, I read a book that profoundly struck me because it sounded like the author was describing Holosync and Centerpointe's marketing strategy. That book was "The 48 Laws of Power," by Robert Greene. Specifically, Law 27, " Play on People's Need to Create a Cultlike Following" where he lists 5 steps to creating a cult or selling snake oil.

(Much snippage for the sake of brevity)

Some have speculated that you're the same person who has posted here before, who knows, and perhaps more importantly, it doesn't really matter. The agenda seems to be the same--get CP.

The question I have is a simple one. You (and perhaps other screen names) have made it abundantly clear what you're against (CP, Bill Harris). What, then are you FOR?








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quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne:
(Much snippage for the sake of brevity)

Some have speculated that you're the same person who has posted here before, who knows, and perhaps more importantly, it doesn't really matter. The agenda seems to be the same--get CP.

The question I have is a simple one. You (and perhaps other screen names) have made it abundantly clear what you're against (CP, Bill Harris). What, then are you FOR?


I would guess that he is FOR holosync, seeing as he claims to still be using it.








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I am for:

1. Truth in advertising.
2. Healthy skepticism.
3. Buyer Beware.
4. Second opinions.
5. Open minds.
6. Differences of opinion.
7. Freedom of speech.
8. Questioning, probing, challenging.
9. Healthy debate and discussion.

JeffDengr, unlike Bill Harris, I'm not trying to sell anything. I recommend people visit their local public library to check out a free copy of Greene's book.

It's amazing how personally people on this board and others take ANY questioning of Holosync and Bill Harris. Chill people! Or, as Master Guru Bill says, "release, and let everything that happens be OK."

But, in answer to your other question, Jeff, Bill Harris has many other enemies. Just visit the other board you refer to and observe how viciously Mr. Harris occassionally responds to criticism.

I openly admitted in my first post that I have used Holosync for three years and I continue to do so. However, as an intelligent human being, that does not mean I do not continue to re-evaluate its effectiveness and impact and research many of the claims made by Centerpointe.

I always despised people who criticized Farenheit 911 without having seen the movie and many many years ago, the "Last Temptation of Christ."

In fact, I have read Bill's book, "Thresholds of the Mind," and many of the primary resources Bill refers to in that book and on his webpage. So I'm not just some bomb-throwing inciter of hate who is uninformed about Bill Harris or unexperienced with Holosync.

I posted the quotes from the Greene book because they might raise important questions for those who are using or contemplating Holosync. And isn't that one of the purposes of this board? I never said, "DON'T use holosyc" or "Bill Harris is the Devil incarnate." I just recommended that people take a look at that book, judge for themselves and share their thoughts if they'd like.

"Be Well,"

Publius.






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quote:
Originally posted by Publius1776:
I am for:

1. Truth in advertising.
2. Healthy skepticism.
3. Buyer Beware.
4. Second opinions.
5. Open minds.
6. Differences of opinion.
7. Freedom of speech.
8. Questioning, probing, challenging.
9. Healthy debate and discussion.



Well, then, since #6 says you're for differences of opinion, then you should understand we have one here when it comes to Harris et al. I don't see the demons you do.

And truthfully--I don't see any lack of truth in advertising, since it does seem to work for some folks. Most meds, in fact, will have the same uneven results. One size SELDOM fits all. For instance, aspirin makes my ears ring and gives me headaches. Should it be banned because of my reaction, which is doubtless in the minority? A lot of people really benefit from the drug. It would be a shame to ban it.

If you don't like HS, don't use it. What's wrong with letting other people make up their own minds?







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Folks I don't mind discussion for or against a product. For or against a marketing strategy. In fact I like it because generally I find it useful, so I'm all for it.

But please, please watch, what you say about other people. That includes people who post and the marketers of the products under discussion.

In the wise words of Thumper's Father (Bambi) "If you cant say anything nice about someone, don't say anything at all." Please consider that before you post a negative remark about a person, including implying they shouldn't be posting; it's very easy to be taken as flaming. And just because the person you are making comments about is not participating in the discussion, is not an acceptable reason to make negative remarks about them, it can still be taken as flaming since it can offend personal friends and supporters. If that is the intention, then it's flaming.

There have been posts whenever Holosync has been discussed that would have been deleted by me on any of the other forums because they attack the messenger not the message. To date I've ignored it because there are just so many borderline post and since it is an emotionally charged topic they are probably not even intentional.

However we cannot allow it to continue. I am asking your help to keep it on topic.

In future, if necessary I will either edit or delete posts that attack the messenger or makes negative remarks about another person, because they not help the discussion.

This post was difficult for me to write so I hope you understand.

If you agree with me just smile and nod.

Alex






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quote:
Originally posted by Serafin:
there is no question in my mind that holosync is capable of ruining people's lives.

Why is there "no question in your mind"? Because you have actually witnessed holosync ruin someone's life? Please share the details of this experience with us.






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I laughed when I read that "law" The five steps were very familiar

The first time I saw them was in 1981. It was in my Advertising course. The 5 steps of successful advertising. Worded differently but the methods both the same and in the same order. It was a bit like reading a book in ye Olde English modernised. Greene had summerised the chapters the way I understood them from the course. What amused me most is the course highlighed a softdrink giant as an example for the approach.

Create a need for your product, (course went into human needs etc). The need may not be obvious so you need to e.g. Softdrink giant, no one needs softdrink to survive as a human right... wrong, look again at the need for survival this softdrink giant created, it's implied (in other words vague)remember KISS.

Step two
Emphasis Visual and sensual. In the course step two Sex sells better than appealing to the intellect. Notice in the Softdrink giant campaign the use of bikini clad people having fun on the beach (hasn't changed much over the years), it appeals to the sensual.

Step three,
Show them how your product will elevate their status and make them superiour to others. Again softdrink giant as example. The nerdy guy turns into a hunk after drinking the softdrink and becomes a pretty girl magnet.

Step four.
Give incentives, use funds to give gifts and prizes. Promote the business by sponsoring programs (how like disguising your source of income is that?) Again softdrink giant examples.

Step 5.
Don't ignore your competitors create a following with effective marketing strategies like softdrink giant example "The Challenge"

In the course it was an effical marketing method in the course called "How to Create Loyal Customers in Five Easy Steps". In the book its The Science of Charlatanism or How to Create a Cult in Five Easy Steps.

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K. Viefhaus (edited February 13, 2005).]






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Hey Publius,

Has it ever occurred to you that if you have used the holosync product for three years without feeling anything or experiencing any benefits in your life, it may be advisable to stop paying money for and using the product?






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Garics, where in any of my posts did I ever say that never felt anything or experienceding any benefit?

Jeanne, when did I ever suggest that Holosync be banned?

Peace,
Publius






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quote:
Originally posted by Publius1776:
Garics, where in any of my posts did I ever say that never felt anything or experienceding any benefit?


Would you care to share some of those positive experiences and benefits you have received from using holosync?

Because in your first post, you said the description in the book was one of selling "snake oil", which means "a worthless product". How do you reconcile the positive benfits you have received from holosync with your "profound realization" that Bill Harris is a snake oil salesman.

So he's a snake-oil salesman, but he's selling a product that has worked for you and benfited you in your life? Please clarify.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 14, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 14, 2005).]






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quote:
Jeanne, when did I ever suggest that Holosync be banned?

Peace,
Publius[/B]


I'm not sure that I said you did. I simply used the aspirin analogy. The remedy the FDA would have taken would have been a banning--HS is not a drug however. (But note, accusations and insinuations like these did pretty much shut down the research and sales of the Rife products.)

On the other hand, painting a company as a cult isn't exactly very flattering, is it?

As an aside, and slightly off-topic, is everyone aware that in the US, supplements could be taken off the "over the counter" market this summer?

Someone is always trying to "save us from ourselves" it seems...I would hate to see the same thing happen to these new technlogies like HS and those taught at Learning Stratagies.

In my opinion, people should be allowed to make up their own minds. The feds are seldom ever good caretakers--they allow horrendous drugs on the market, yet want to squelch supplements. Some people posting here have actually suggested that the feds be brought in to check HS. If they do, no good can come of it, and the ripple effect might harm more than just CenterPointe.

Just my 2 cents, although probably worth far less.







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Publius;

What irritated me the most about what you presented is that you aren't specific. You just throw this generalized thing out there and make it seem like "It's all bad".

From what you said, it seems you still listen to Holosync everyday but something else you don't agree with.

Years ago Steve Martin (the comedian) made a joke about trees on the side of the road causing so many auto accidents. Those darn trees should be taken to jail. A couple years later a Politician took up this cause and tried to have all the roadside trees removed in California because they caused auto accidents.

Having met people that work for Bill Harris in Portland , Ore I can attest there is no cult religion happening there. As disappointing as that may seem, they are just everyday people that work and do some spiritual growth, try to honestly help people, maybe drink a beer on the weekends watch and the sports event of the season.

True, it is it's own developing culture. It's also part of a bigger cultural development in this country and the world.

I don't agree with Bill on everything, some of those things he recommends for marketing are real stinkers in my opinion. Although I do like to see what he is doing and believe it or not those e-mails kinda help me see what direction he is going next. They lay out a path he has taken, maybe I'll follow it when I get there, maybe I won't.

Both Bill and LSC like to mention Jack Canfield alot as a role model they follow. I met Jack in 1995 and didn't care for him. He is very succesful as a businessman and has helped alot of people. When Bill is Marketing I just look at it as a Jack Canfield thing.

But Bill is a Educator, he is a Business man, he has a family and alot of things that don't involve whatever you don't like.

In Marketing sometimes they "position" something. You seemed to position Bill Harris and Cult Religion together with your original statement.

Maybe Bill has snapped a couple times but if you hit your threshold from people standing back and throwing stones, what would you do and how would you respond. I'd probably look for a paint ball gun the size of a bazooka to return fire, at least I'd surely think about it.

You obviously see something you thought these rules applied to but you never layed it out, only "shotgunned" the whole Bill Harris/Centerpointe/the Entire Universe is a Cult Religion, Oh my Gawd!

Maybe you could try this again from the top.

Jeff








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quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne:
Someone is always trying to "save us from ourselves" it seems...I would hate to see the same thing happen to these new technlogies like HS and those taught at Learning Stratagies.


For anyone thinks the current holosync pricing structure is undemocratic or excessive, just wait till it gets taken off the retail market and becomes the exclusive province of the current medical establishment. $5000 per level anyone??








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quote:
Originally posted by garics:
Why is there "no question in your mind"? Because you have actually witnessed holosync ruin someone's life? Please share the details of this experience with us.

Holosync cost me two good jobs, my ability to concentrate, read effectively and remember well, put me on social benefit/disability and into therapy. I was very close to commiting suicide on several occasions because I DID think my life was ruined. Luckily things are looking a lot better, but that's not going to keep me from sharing my views here - even though I do realise that it offends some people.

Why do you think there is so much controversy surrounding holosync? Perhaps because there are people out there who are really harmed by its use?








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Serafin;

The things you describe sound more like toxins in the body coming out. We have so many chemicals in our diet and medications these days that don't mix well in the body. Any kind of exercise can stir things up and give you a nasty experience.

Perhaps you could consider this. There are detox programs that might serve you far better before doing something like Holosync.

Or also consider looking at allergies. I'm not disagreeing with you although there may be other circumstances that help create what you have experienced.

Everyone knows that Asbestos is bad for you although if you don't smoke it doesn't seem to have much effect on non-smokers. When the two are combined the statisics for lung disease start climbing through the roof.








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I did it for three years and gave up but not without spending huge sums on their offers for the next 2-3 levels. I came to the conclusion that if nothing dramatic has happened after 3 years then nothing ever will, perhaps i am just one of small percentage that the process fails to work on. The only thing it has done for me is ruin my passion for driving and lower my intellectual abilities which were lacking in the first place, the main thing is i can no longer concentrate properly when driving. I sold my car and had to start using public transport because i felt i was a danger on the road.

I feel bad that i did not experience anything after so much commitment even though i kept a journal and was inspired by people's posts to keep with it and something would happen. But at the end of it i just thought it would be better to give the money to charity then spend it on further levels when i havent achieved anything with it.






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phOTOreader;

Please note I am not disagreeing with you but when things aren't working, in my opinion, you have to stand up and tell the Universe you aren't going to accept this bag of trash you have been handed.

My line is something like " I don't want much, I just want it perfect" with a few sailor dialect additives thrown in there.If you don't do this then you never know if you'll get it.

The Hawaiians do a chant I like as an example. They stand up with hands on hips and call to the Gods, alot of intimidating body language goes with it. Alot of strong chanting that can give you chicken skin.

The Gods are expected to listen, it's your turn. And when you get what you want, be sure to thank the Universe.

It sounds as if you have nothing to lose by demanding what you want from life.

Jeff






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quote:
Originally posted by Serafin:
Holosync cost me two good jobs, my ability to concentrate, read effectively and remember well, put me on social benefit/disability and into therapy. I was very close to commiting suicide on several occasions because I DID think my life was ruined. Luckily things are looking a lot better, but that's not going to keep me from sharing my views here - even though I do realise that it offends some people.

I lost a job and had suffered some of the same problems you are describing, due to doing too much yoga, but that doesn't mean I want yoga practice to be subjected to federal regulations, or some pea-brained conventional scrutiny.

Like everything that is effective, and cathartic, it can be harmful in the short term to varying levels depending on individual makeup, and yes the level of toxins in your systen as jeffden related, can play a big part -- it certainly did in my case.


quote:

Why do you think there is so much controversy surrounding holosync? Perhaps because there are people out there who are really harmed by its use?


No, you are the first person I've heard actually bring first-hand evidence to the table. The others do not, and then run away from their own conclusions it seems.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited December 16, 2005).]






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Hi,

Yes holosync is more powerful then most of us expect. For instance as a child
I had a speech handicap, I was lisping. My parents sent me to speech therapist
and that problem got solved.

While on Awakening Level 3 on the hs program (that was thirty years later) it resurfaced again.
After eighteen month then it was gone. I contact the help line and they told me that such things can be expected. However, hs can only drive out what already exists in us. It does not create lisping or lack of concentration.

Also, there are some people on the program which are under psychiatric treatment or had such treatments in the past. These people should not be on the program without
their doctors approval. Because hs digs very deep a lot of stuff may come up which those people cannot handle. This applies specially to those who have been treated with electro shock in the past.

Yes, it can take a long time before results show up. I decided to go on with the program quite early when on the Awakening Prologue. I experienced such deep meditation which I had never felt before and also some overwhelm symptoms.

This convinced me that the system was working for me. However, it took me up to level 4 when I noticed the first benefits and
positive changes.

Cheers,








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When you started experiencing trouble with holosync, what did you do in reaction?

Did you continue to use it to try and break through? Did you immediately stop? Did you temporarily stop and then start up again?







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babayada

When those lisping symptoms came up I continued as normal. I did not stop or slow down. I think they started during AL3 and by
the end of AL4 they were gone.

There is a woman on the Ebay forum who report
that she became dyslexic during the AL levels. She too continued with the program without interruption and is now I guess on Purification 4. She also stated that hs did not make her dyslexic but it must have been in her and that it is also in her family.

So hs is a powerful stuff and it is certainly
not a quick fix program.

Cheers,









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quote:
Originally posted by Frodo02:
Yes, it can take a long time before results show up. I decided to go on with the program quite early when on the Awakening Prologue. I experienced such deep meditation which I had never felt before and also some overwhelm symptoms.

This convinced me that the system was working for me. However, it took me up to level 4 when I noticed the first benefits and
positive changes.


Gosh, some of you folks are so patient! For me, if I don't notice something--some tiny thing even--within about a month, I don't give it any more time. With Transcendental Meditation (learned lo! those many years ago), I noticed benefits within days, if not sooner. With Silva, I experienced benefits immediately. With SPQG I noticed benefits AS I was learning. (Alas, I've injured a foot, so not doing the moving QG for awhile.)

Hats off to all of you who waited for years with HS--that kind of patience is something I just don't have! (My HS gathers dust on the bookshelf--level 1, natch!)









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Jeanne,

If you are familiar with NLP then you will realize that both of us are using different
strategies in order to determine what works and what does not.

For instance I noticed a very deep state of meditation which I had never experienced
before and also some overwhelm symptoms such jerking arms, crunching teeth, zonked out for a few minutes after meditating etc.

This confirmed to me that hs was working for me. I did not expect any deep and fundamental
changes during the prologue because from my experience this take time.

Also from my experience those surface changes normal don't last.

You have a different criteria to find out what works and not.

Whether yours or mine is better I don't know. Yours might be better in saving you time and try something else in the meantime
and thereby gaining more new insides. On the other hand you might miss some opportunities because you are giving up to quickly.

My approach might waste a lot of time in those circumstances when I am deluding myself and later find out that the system does not work for me. It may also lead to disappointment when something failed after many years. I actually experienced this only once so far.

Cheers,









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Bless your heart, Frodo02, no criticism coming from me! I have nothing but sheer admiration for someone with the kind of patience you have. I know of the depth of experience that can be found in working as you do, and as many have done since time began. My being seems to function differently--hence, the program in question collects dust on a bookshelf.

It's not just in matters of spirit, mind you. Dear hubby and I like to work with stained glass. I do the designs and color choices. He, who has infinitely more patience than I, does the glass cutting.

I sometimes think the Universe is like a Mother with many children, each with different needs. She therefore sets out a grand banquet of infinite dishes, so that all of Her children might be nourished. Or, as one of my yoga teachers used to put it, there are as many "one true paths" as there are people to walk them.

Still, I watch people with this beautiful kind of patience, and wish I had a bit more of it!








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Incidently guys.I recently asked a coupla questions to both Marc Gilson,and Bill.They are 1.Since you guys are in the process of preparing a research study,will you be using the placebo effect,and 2.Why aren't the upper levels guaranteed.After 3 tries,neither question has even been attemtped an answer.Very interesting.What do they have to hide?






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Perhaps hiding is the wrong word. If you ask them a question about how to use the program or any problem you have you will get an answer quickly.

If ask about the companies policy or making suggestions what they should do with the products or how to price it you might not get
an answer.

Reason: It is not your business. Or never let an individual customer especially when in the "Hutch" category tell the company owner/manager to how to run a business.

Only the market data, the customer reaction as a whole should determine wha to do.

Cheers,






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I think that Bill Harris may very well be afraid of the results of a study testing his product against the placebo effect.

Giving someone a soundtrack of simply bells and rain without any of the "psycho-acoustic" technology (but telling them that it does have it) may have a surprising effect.

How much of it is from expectation, a philosophy, personal investment (in terms of both money and ego), and a result of social influences? Probably an awful lot.

This isn't saying that the technology doesn't do anything, it obviously does. But I bet you dollars to doughnuts that a really good study using the placebo effect will show that some people get real results without the low carrier binaural beats or any of that.

I think the results of such a study would be pretty bad press for Centerpointe. Some people may say "to hell with it" and just start meditating with traditional techniques, or simply spending an hour or so of quiet time just relaxing and being aware.

I think everyone is aware of this already, though. People just choose what they choose. If holosync is something to believe in for someone, then they believe in it, they derive value from it, and it fills a place in their lives.

I've been mad at Centerpointe for a long time. I've been using holosync, giving it a chance, since I was challenged to give it another shot. It's a nice excuse to meditate. The approach is ok, I am not using any particular method of meditation during it. I simply listen and do whatever I want with my mind. It's an hour of quiet time and trance that I use however I wish.

I do like it, but I would not pay $300 a pop for more levels. My choice. If others want to, fine. It's their time and money, and it may well do an awful lot for them. If so, good.

Strangely, I found the Awakening Prologue to have a more visceral effect than Awakening Level 1.

Really, people are making their own choices about it. I am sorry I spent so much time making noise about it and being condescending. People simply make their own choices and that's that. They are usually not dupes. They are aware of the variables involved and make choices based on their available resources and will. And that, I guess, is simply that.

I believe a lot of people want the technology to do things for them that it may not for whatever reason. They paid a lot of money, and they're mad. Others, as we've seen, have experienced quite a bit of pain and suffering. I do not know whether or not these people would have had the same negative results from traditional meditation, my intuition says they probably would ... depending on the technique. I think each of these people deserve, at least, a refund and, considering the marketing, an apology.








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Bill Harris is a masterful marketeer. Corey Rudl the internet entrepreneur cites Bill Harris as a example of success. Bill Harris grosses $12 million per year from Centerpointe.
Of course this does not mean that his product is invalid. I would personally vouch for it's effectiveness. But it just shows what a powerful model Mr Harris has devised.






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Really, people are making their own choices about it. I am sorry I spent so much time making noise about it and being condescending. People simply make their own choices and that's that. They are usually not dupes. They are aware of the variables involved and make choices based on their available resources and will. And that, I guess, is simply that.

I believe a lot of people want the technology to do things for them that it may not for whatever reason. They paid a lot of money, and they're mad. Others, as we've seen, have experienced quite a bit of pain and suffering. I do not know whether or not these people would have had the same negative results from traditional meditation, my intuition says they probably would ... depending on the technique. I think each of these people deserve, at least, a refund and, considering the marketing, an apology.

Babayda,

Some of us are here trying to decide which choices to make (see my thread on hypnotherapy/NLP and sound/light therapy), so please keep sharing your thoughts. I'm in "overwhelm" about the myriad of choices out there. And I'm trying to make some logical decisions before I do spend a lot of money for something that doesn't work, realizing that self improvement techniques are not a "one size fits all" proposition and what works for you may not work for me.

And, for all your rants about Centerpointe (to which I take no offense, but rather take as a "buyer beware" warning), I appreciate your candor and integrity in remarking that you couldn't duplicate the quality on a "home-made" CD.






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Well, I am not done my experiments yet. I am going to take the floating CD and put a .3 binaural beat at a 80hz carrier on it and see how that works.

I am thinking the quality of the background sounds might have a lot to do with it.








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babyada:

"I think that Richard Bandler may very well be afraid of the results of a study testing his product against the placebo effect.

Giving someone a rousing, conventional "self-help" seminar(but telling them that it is NLP) may have a surprising effect.

How much of it is from expectation, a philosophy, personal investment (in terms of both money and ego), and a result of social influences? Probably an awful lot.

This isn't saying that the technology doesn't do anything, it obviously does. But I bet you dollars to doughnuts that a really good study using the placebo effect will show that some people get real results without the "meta-programming", "re-patterning", or any of that.

I think the results of such a study would be pretty bad press for Richard Bandler and NLP. Some people may say "to hell with it" and just start going to Zig Ziglar seminars, or simply spending an hour or so of quiet time telling themselves that they are a winner."


Seriously, I obviously don't agree with this point of view, but I don't agree with YOUR point of view either.

Before you tell me why I'm wrong, why don't you show me your proof that Richard Bandler and NLP is anything more than a conventional "you-can-do-it" approach??
You don't have any, other than the certainty of the experiences and benefits you have received from NLP in your life.
That is why the whole schema and theory of it is real to you and meaningful...not because of something you read in "Scientific American"...

The thing is, I don't doubt your experiences; I just don't want you to doubt mine with holosync either.






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Garic,

Actually, that was pretty amusing.

There is a lot to be said about expectation/placebo effect with NLP.

If you read my message again, however, you'll see that I do indicate that I think the technology does do something, but also that expectation and other factors have a lot to do with it. I feel the same thing about NLP.







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babyada,

I agree that the backgrounds on Holosync (at least the demo - I haven't committed to buying the real thing yet) are awfully good. But if you ARE able to make a reasonable facsimile, I'd love to have a copy. And, I guess the binaural beats and low freq backgounds are easily duplicated, huh? That is, a .3 binaural beat is a .3 binaural beat is a .3 binaural beat....?
That would leave open the discussion of whether or not Harris has certain aspects of a "secret recipe" that he doesn't disclose or discuss...

BTW, I sure wish you and Garics would add a few words of wisdom (here or on my other thread)about sound/light devices, NLP, etc. Don't make me grovel...






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Well, I am going to basically rip the floating cd to a high quality .wav file and then add a low carrier .3 binaural beat to it.

I cannot give out the resulting CD, because the soundtrack on Floating is copyrighted by Centerpointe. Once I do it, however, and use it for a while, I will post the results here.

And, yeah, I am willing to bet there are a few "secret ingredients" in their CDs. But who knows? We'll see.

I'm really not saying that it (holosync) is all garbage. I've tried to put enough of that sentiment into my recent posts to convey my feelings about that.

I am currently at the point where I feel there are diminshing returns to my listening to the holosync tracks, but I'll stay with it for a while and see. Granted, there are people who spend years with it (as we've all read) before really seeing amazing results. *shrugs* I don't know if I'll have that patience. I certainly don't plan to purchase any more products from Centerpointe. I'm not going to do that Inner Circle thing and $300 bucks a level is too much.

Maybe someone will really produce some outstanding products of a similar nature for a more reasonable price. The Insight CD from Awakened Minds is just ... eh ... just sorta puts me to sleep.







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quote:
Originally posted by alvinmc:
babyada,

I agree that the backgrounds on Holosync (at least the demo - I haven't committed to buying the real thing yet) are awfully good. But if you ARE able to make a reasonable facsimile, I'd love to have a copy.


alvin,

you can make holosync Awakening Prologue with BrainWave Generator, which you download for free at BWGen.com. I gave some instructions and listed the specific frequencies for this procedure in the Alan Hilton thread "Binaural Beats EEG etc."
...Of course, you will be getting pink or brown noise as an overlay instead of the rain and those lovely singing bowl sounds, but I think you'll survive.

As far as any "secrets" in the holosync programming, no I don't see any. I got the exact same benefits from my own recipes as from the ones I ordered from the "research institute"... I was at the end of Flowering Level 1 when I began creating my own tracks....and yes I am "one of those people" who started getting noticeable, positive, and continuing results from holosync in less than a week.

The only secret to the program besides the info listed in that post, is that each subsequent level of the program drops the carrier frequency by about 10Hz or so...so eventually in "Flowering 4" you are getting down to the lower limit of human frequency perception.


Only disadvantage to doing this is that you may get slight headaches and little unwanted side-effects like that from the meditation as you create the follow-up levels, I'm not sure if anyone has listed the precise frequencies for those levels yet.... I think part of what they've "researched" at Centerpointe is what precise combo of frequencies are most likely to avoid those side effects. But keep in mind, these side effects are pretty minor if you're like me.

So anyway...now I've saved you $4000 or so on doing the entire Centerpointe program. I have a couple other recommendations but I'll list them in your other thread.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 23, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
Garic,

Actually, that was pretty amusing.


Well I'm glad you received it in the manner I intended. Smiley face, right back at ya.

quote:

I feel the same thing about NLP.


Yes, but there's a reason why you have never actually SAID THAT about NLP before, correct?

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 23, 2005).]






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quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
Well, I am going to basically rip the floating cd to a high quality .wav file and then add a low carrier .3 binaural beat to it.


babayada,

You're going to ramp down to that 0.3 Hz beat, right? I would definitely recommend doing this for best results....this is just from my experience with making these low-carrier kinds of tracks. Maybe starting at 12-15 Hz, or whatever you personally prefer.








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Garic,

I suppose there are many reasons why I never thought of it that way and never said it. It's an interesting subject for discussion, though.

Well, I tried the .3 binaural beat thing. It made me nauseous. Listening to the holosync track, it sounds like there isn't just one binaural beat, it sounds like there may be two layered or something like that. It also sounds like the beats are "softened" a little. The direct sine wave tones I generated with BWGEN were a little too strong. I think I am going to try the sine^3 wave with the .3 beat next and see how that goes.







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quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
Garic,


It also sounds like the beats are "softened" a little. The direct sine wave tones I generated with BWGEN were a little too strong. I think I am going to try the sine^3 wave with the .3 beat next and see how that goes.


That's a good point, I have always had pretty good luck with the regular sine wave so I never considered that might be what produces some of the "harshness" of those BWGEn tracks.

BTW, how long did you listen to the 80 Hz carrier? I think that is close to the tone that caused Bill and his friends to freak out in the early days...but as the story goes they were using this one for several hours.








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guys,I guess my point with all my questions to Centerpointe is this.Tha answers may not be any of my business,but if they were to answer them,it would show goodwill.These are the same people who want our testimonials.Interesting.I see in the latest newsletter that they are working on a new study.






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quote:
Originally posted by showmetheway:
guys,I guess my point with all my questions to Centerpointe is this.Tha answers may not be any of my business,but if they were to answer them,it would show goodwill.These are the same people who want our testimonials.Interesting.I see in the latest newsletter that they are working on a new study.

They are always working on a new study - at least they have been for the last five years since I became a customer.







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Garics: you can make holosync Awakening Prologue with BrainWave Generator, which you download for free at BWGen.com. I gave some instructions and listed the specific frequencies for this procedure in the Alan Hilton thread "Binaural Beats EEG etc."
...Of course, you will be getting pink or brown noise as an overlay instead of the rain and those lovely singing bowl sounds, but I think you'll survive.

Actually, I enjoy the rain and bowl sounds on the demo I was sent. It seems to be a very good recording.

If I order the first set of CDs from Counterpointe, could I replecate the other sets in the series by recording from my original CDs and adding some different frequencies with the Brainwave Generator? Or would that not work because I would not be able to eliminate the binaural frequencies on the original CDs?

And - thanks for saving me 4 thousand dollars :-)






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Oh, I wasn't trying to say I didn't like the singing bowls, actually I do. Although after listening to holosync tracks for all those years, I would have welcomed a change at some point.

No you wouldn't want to layer another binaural beat over the one that's already there. The tones you used for the lower carrier would mix with the original tones, which would create another binaural beat at a completely different frequency...

The best thing is probably just to find a music or "relaxation" CD that has similiar sounds to those you like on the holosync CD's....I know they're out there, most large music stores have a pretty good selection of envirnmental or music sounds. Just make sure there aren't any binaural beats on it, or you could run into that same problem.

Send me an email if you need any more info regarding this procedure.






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Check the Dollar shops. Here in Australia you can get nature sound CDs for about $2 each instead of $30 average for a CD. A good variety too and some have some light music which can make hour long listening more enjoyable. Good for variety. Also someone once posted a link for a program called Atmosphere Lite. You can record the sound effects like rain, streams and thunderstorms.
http://www.relaxingsoftware.com/atmlitehome.htm

Alex






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Hi All,

I've done a lot of research on the CDs, using Adobe Audition's analysis tools to determine exactly what the soundtracks were or were not made of, and using that same software to create my own personal variations.

I'll try and give the exact "recipe" for Holosync CDs.
First I'll state what I've found to be inside those tracks, and second I'll give my advice for making personal tracks.

What’s in a Holosync soundtrack ?
1) one sine wave in each ear. One is constant, the other varies in the dive tracks. In immersion tracks, they are both constant. (not present in the “floating” soundtracks);
2) Raindrops (not present in the “floating” soundtracks);
3) Glass Bells (only in Dive, not in the Immersion soundtracks);
4) A peak in frequency at 15500 Hz, where the “Autofonix Silent Affirmations” are “modulated” (this is not present in AP, only in AL 1 and upward;
5) Nothing else. Sorry folks, there’s no “secret something else” in the soundtracks, special technology or what, that would make it more effective than other BW soundtracks from other makers.

Hey ! If there’s no “secret technology”, what makes the Holosync CDs so much more effective ?
In my opinion :
1) the use of the Dive before going into the “deep” meditation : it kind of “heats up and stretches the brain in preparation of the “exercise” it’s going to take;
2) the raindrops. White or brown noise are known in BW literature for enhancing the effect of binaureal beats. But it’s a real pain to listen to ! The raindrop sound is a random sound that has the same effect of enhancing the binaureal beats, but with the added benefit of being relaxing to the ear, instead of irritating like the white or brown noise;
3) the “revolutionary” Virtual Audio recording technology. It does make the whole listening less a strain on the ear.
All in all, it’s just remarkably well engineered soundtracks that put no strain on the listener. Other BW soundtracks are clearly not as “polished”.

What are the Binaureal Beats ?
1) in Dive : panning from 10 to 2 Hz in the first 20 minutes, and staying constant at 2 Hz for the last 10 Minutes;
2) In Immersion : 2 Hz, for ½ an hour;
3) In Immersion 1.5 : unsurprisingly, 1.5 Hz, for ½ an hour;
4) In Immersion 0.5 : 0.5 Hz, for ½ an hour;
5) In Immersion 0.3 : 0.3 Hz, for ½ an hour;
6) In Quietude (bonus CD in AP) : 10 Hz, for ½ an hour.
7) In Oasis (bonus CD in AP) : 8 Hz, for ½ an hour.

Here is the list of carrier frequencies
In the Online Demo : 80Hz
In Awakening Prologue : 140 Hz
In the Quietude and Oasis CD : 80 Hz
In Awakening Level 1 : 120 Hz
In Awakening Level 2 : 100 Hz

I'm currently on AL 2, so I have no real idea what the frequencies for lower levels are. I might post them when I receive the subsequent levels, if anyone is interested. I tend to think that Purification 1 uses 80Hz as a carrier frequency, but it’s only a guess, based on answers I’ve received from the Centerpointe staff regarding the relative “potency” of the Oasis and Quietude soundtracks compared to those of the levels of the program…

How to create Homemade Sountracks that sound (almost) as good as Centerpointe ?
1) rip the Immersion soundtrack to a .wav file.
2) Do a low-pass filter at 15000 Hz to eliminate the “Silent Affirmations”, if you’re using a second-hand CD
3) Eliminate the BB sine waves by filtering out all frequencies in a segment of +to-15 Hz around the carrier frequency (140 for AP, 120 for AL1, 100 for AL2, …). You’ve created a “naked” raindrops soundtrack.
4) Select the Carrier frequency you want for a lower level. Create Dive and several Immersion BB tracks, and then mix that with the “naked” raindrops soundtrack. Correct setting for the volume of the sine waves should be at minus30dB.
5) Et voila!
You could also mix in some favorite music of yours, if you like.

Actually, I'm already an "inner circle" member, so all of the above is really useless information in my case (I only wanted to figure it all out for curiosity's sake) : my 1800$ are already spent, and I'll get all my CDs the day I ask for them without having to cash out anything more.

Although I think after analyzing the AP tracks I had enough technical knowledge to create reasonably effective tracks similar to the rest of the program, my reasons for deciding to buy the whole program were the following :
1) Centerpointe's soundtracks really sound better than what I created myself;
2) I can get their customer support as much as I need, and I do find it helpful at some crucial times;
3) Since they've made their program so effective (judging from the effect AP had on me) I tended to trust the way they organize the rest of the levels (how they devised the progression for the carrier frequencies for each level)
4) cashing out the full price for the whole program was a way to assure myself that I'd be committed to go through the whole program in its entirety. I know I often lose courage in the long run. Havy paid 1800$ would give myself a permanent reminder : "you've paid dear money for it, you'd better make the maximum use of it !".
5) Since I intended to do the whole program, it was cheaper that way !

Once again, a super-long post !
I hope it’s useful for everyone around…

Cheers to all.

Erwan







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Oh, yes, missing ino in my previous post :
The online Demo's BB is panning 10Hz to 8z in 20 minutes.

AP's Immersion is 2hz for 1/2 an hour. The deeper immersions are only in sbsequent levels of the program, as most of you already know...

Erwan






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Erwan,

Thanks for the great informational post and your analytical "dissection" of the various ingredients of holosync.

I have only used the free sample they send out, but I was very impressed with the quality of the recording (without an opinion about the validity of the underlying theraputic value). It is obvious to me that it was probably done with high quality microphones and mixing equipment, and had a much better sonic quality than most environmental sound CDs (such as what Alex mentioned on an earlier post).

I am curious, though, as to why your reproductions did not sound quite as good as the originals. Could it be the conversion to a .wav file, which is often described as a "lossy" conversion (like mp3 - unless I'm mistaken) - causes a noticeable deterioration of the sound quality?






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Hi Alvinmc,

I think the reason my "homemade" BW CDs didn't sound as good as the Centerpointe ones is just that I'm not a preofessional sound engineer.
I used environmental sounds CDs that you can find in any disk store, so it's not the quality of the samples that was a problem. And I did all my mixing in .wav formats, without any compression, so no loss.
I think it's just that the guys at Centerpinte have a BIG experience at making thos CDs, and they know exactly what the right settings (volume levels, reverberation effects, 3D effects, filtering, etc...) to make it as pleasing, relaxing, and therefore effective as possible.

That's why you pay someone to do somehting you are able to do yourself : because he's able to do it much better than you :-)

Cheers,


Erwan






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Erwan,

I misunderstood part of what you did. I thought you recorded the HS sound effects (rain, chimes) then filtered out the carrier frequency and added/changed it. In essence, I thought you had the basic HS "background sounds" then added another carrier frequency and/or affirmations. But, instead, you just took other (non - HS) environmental sounds CDs and added the other HS "ingredients" (carrier frequency, binaural beats, etc)?






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Hi Alvinmc,

I ALSO did do what you describe. It worked very well.

I just can't manage to find a way to do the filtering correctly on the Dive soundtracks (which have the bells), as their frequencies are changing throughout the sountrack...

Anyway, I've already paid for the whole program, so I'll get my next level CDs pretty soon. I just did this for the fun, in order to create some personal variations on the CDs (exploring other Brainwave rythms, etc...)


Cheers,

Erwan






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Alvinmc,

Regarding your considering to buy the Holosync program or not, i would give you the following advice :
Buy Awakening Prologue, and then after 4 or 5 months, buy Awakening level 1.
With those first two levels you will get TONS of material and support from Centerpointe, and since you seem to be technologically savvy, you can continue by yourself from there on.
A big part of the price you pay for in the program is due to the customer support. It's really excellent, these guys have a loit of experience dealing with the various phenomena that can arise in response to intense meditation. It's a real help and I think it's worth the price...

I hope this helps you !

Erwan






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I'm on AL2, getting AL3 soon (fell for the new "Gamma Compassion" soundtrack pitch, but I was waiting for the BiAnnual Centerpoint Sales Pitch anyway!).

Been at it for over 2 years. I've gotten interesting results with BWGEN too. But, as already said, Holosync seems to work alot smoother, has better support, and they seem to know what they're doing.

I did TM for nearly 10 years, the last 3 or so with group and Sidhis practice. I saw alot of "unstressing" surrounding it, but not nearly as much practical benefit or progress as with Holosync (but I'm much older and more settled now, too!).

I can easily believe that some people have had Kundalini blowout with Holosync, just as I've seen with TM or any other practice. I do think the support at Centerpointe is far more detailed and practical then the TM org gave us plebians. The cost pans out to be the same as TM/Sidhis course, too, but Holosynce is a much better investment of time and money for me, so far.

I can't vouch for Bill, and like it that way. Sure, he's a born pitchman, and may have a temperment problem with some people. But that ominous posting about "cult and exclusivity tactics" are not much different than the MLMs, ad campaign, or designer fads I've seen come and go.

Besides, everyone thinks they have "the best," otherwise, why would they even bother? And Centerpointe never said you can't practice anything else along with Holo (if they were an "exclusive cult," rather than another hustling business, they wouldn't muddy the water with all that junk mail for other programs!). I try to fit in a little yoga, Zazen and walking meditation during the day, and I get much better results and focus than I did before trying Holosync.

So no cult, guru, diet or dresscode scene for me. Just send me the disks and materials and be done with it.

When, and if, I come across something better (and cheaper), I'll have no qualms about jumping ship. (besides, I can't afford the "insider's circle). (One guy on eBay will sell me his own "equivalent, or better," tracks for $80 each. But he still would rather have me start with a beginner's track, because he believes his tracks are even more powerful.)

[This message has been edited by lad (edited May 03, 2005).]






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Hi Lad
In your post you stated "...(fell for the new "Gamma Compassion" soundtrack pitch,..."

What is that?

Thanks
Nickie






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quote:
Originally posted by Nickie:
Hi Lad
In your post you stated "...(fell for the new "Gamma Compassion" soundtrack pitch,..."

What is that?

Thanks
Nickie


Well, Centerpointe apparently has a discount sale offer (with spread payment plans) every Nov. and April - usually with bonus items - like "New Autofonix and 3D audio" and such. Last Nov., it was a bonus of some of Bill's courses. This time, it's the "opportunity" to be one of the field testers for their "first new product in over a decade."

IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS:

Seems that Bill noticed an article about Buddhist brain research in the WSJ. Says while monks practice the Metta Compassion exercise, their brains appear to give out very high (50 MHZ) "Gamma" frequencies.
Sooooo, he and his audio posse tried rigging up a soundtrack to do the same. Bill says it works and puts you in that compassionate, happy, energized Metta state right away (and hey, he's even gonna include some subliminal affirmations on top of that!).
So, ORDER YOUR NEXT LEVEL NOW and get this probably-will-soon-be-released-separately-at-$100 new soundtrack (and be obliged to send in an experiential report in 1-2 months, tho' I don't think they're gonna come knocking down your door for one).
I was gonna bite anyway, so the added track helped spur the decision (plus some added reports and his recorded UN talk to boot).

Oh yeah, seems the Gamma frequency cuts loose with a lot of those twitchie "kriyas," apparently indicating a lotta "purification" (even if you're a Bill Harris!).
So, those of you with things like the forementioned psycho/neurological mish-mash going on probably should sit this one out. (JMHO, not saying that I don't expect some pinball action myself from this kinda stuff).








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I have been reading all of these post about centerpointe and holosync and have yet to find some kind of intrinsic value in the whole debate it is just a constant swing in polarity from recomenders to discrediters, for some one new to read all of these posts it is just one more long list of information to confuse someone, there is never any resolution. It just makes me feel like I am at a presidential debate between the republicans and the democrats. Each "canditate" has his own opinion upon the given subject and but it never really reaches and end. it is just a verbal toying with polarity. making large sweeping swings from extreme left to extreme right until someone new joins in the debate at a neutral point and is swept away into the swaying.
so what I am really getting at is what meaning does all of this have for you?
Is it a heart felt testemonial of what works for you or is it an unconcious attempt to recruit more followers of the way of "MY WAY"? just my two cents.






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Are your comments here a heartfelt testimonial or just an attempt to discredit everyone who has actually used the product and is offering their comments on this thread?

It is easy to stand on the sidelines and produce aesthetic descriptions of what's wrong with eveyone else; quite another to actually contribute something meaningful that could be of definite benefit to someone who is out there searching and trying to make sense of these tools. That is the purpose and objective of most of the posters here IMO. This whole world is uncharted territory, and we are all here together trying to make sense of it for ourselves and others.

Of course there are squabbles and confrontations; that is human nature and some kind of subjective idealism is not the remedy. Unless you happen to live in an environment in which every disagreement is resolved every time, with total agreement and crystal clarity among all those who participate. If you do I would love to hear more about it.

If you read carefully through the last few threads on holosync I think you will actually find some very useful information and discussion regarding appropriate use of the product; data regarding its effects as reported by users as well as measured by various devices, as well as debate about whether other products are or could be more useful.

But if what you really want is to reach a point of clarity about the effectiveness of holosnc FOR YOU, I would recommned that you start off with the free sample on the Centerpointe website, or construct a homeade version on BWGen.






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[QUOTE]Originally posted by garics:
[B]Are your comments here a heartfelt testimonial or just an attempt to discredit everyone who has actually used the product and is offering their comments on this thread?

"You talkin' to me?" :-)

I've been a devoted Holsync user for the last couple years. I obviously like it and find it useful. I've recommend it to others.

But, in fairness, I must detatch myself a bit from the "sales pitch" aspects of the "spiritual" program. (Tho', in retropect, I wouldn't have discovered it if not for their marketing). I think it's mostly the aftersales and solicitations that rubs some users the wrong way (but I usually enjoy reading the stuff, even if it doesn't really interest me).

I also can't argue against those who say they had trouble, or serious disturbances, doing this (or any) kind of practice. It's known to happen. Some people are simply unable (in old TM parlance) "to follow the program." Any defensiveness, or laying of guilt on them, is just projecting one's own insecurities.

"My own heartfelt testimonial?"

it's simple:

"LIGHTEN UP"

Bill & Co. are certainly NOT the next Jonestown (or even Enron). They have a quality product that's done more good than harm (even if they've enriched themselves from it). Rigidity, dogma, or continual suffering doesn't do anything for growth. And the"one size fits all" certainly doesn't apply to any single, spiritual technique.






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[garics]

Well I have actually been using holosync for about 3 years and am at the end of A4/L4 and I think that the program is great I dont care about the price it really isnt that much, but that comes from my perspective of value. I have had tons of growth and a big increase in awareness. But you know what that is not what I was getting at the debate is always people who have gone on to other levels against people who have stopped. one against another instead of just saying what happened in the program with them and leaving it at that it turns into a war between half full and half empty. even when it becomes criticism it is hardly constructive. yes there has been good development with the topics around Bwgen and frequencies which is some resolution, I guess I just dont understand the bantering yet.






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I just ran across this board looking for something else. I thought the Holosync stuff was too expensive but as someone else posted, some people might benefit from their phone support.

Some have reported having negative experiences with HoloSync, getting their brains into the wrong state. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this?

As for the CD "soon to be sold for $100": it sounds like Bill Harris is willing to give some away as part of the $300 level cost and get testimonials in return, so he can use the testimonials to sell a lot more in the long run. Simple marketing.

I tried binaural beats and they had a very positive effect on me, with no negative effects. I monitored my brain waves on an EEG and my brain did lock onto whatever beat frequency or frequencies were generated. The bigger question is, what studies have been done on what combinations of carrier/beat can be harmful, and their long-term effects?

I was thinking of making a professionally recorded CD but it would be good to know of any studies on any negative side effects of binaural beats.







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TM and traditional meditation has been around and studied longer than Binaural Beats. And there is no universal agreement about their benefits (or harm), either.

Every religion, practice, therapy and political system has it's elevated fanatics and damaged dissenters.

Like with anything you go for, or risk, YMMV.

It's called LIVING.






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Those 5 steps could also be applied to how politicians stay in power even though they cause more harm than good.






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quote:
Originally posted by Erwan:

3) Eliminate the BB sine waves by filtering out all frequencies in a segment of +to-15 Hz around the carrier frequency (140 for AP, 120 for AL1, 100 for AL2, …). You’ve created a “naked” raindrops soundtrack.

I've done this but instead of ripping out the frequencies as suggested I just copied the right track to the left track using Audacity. I figure if the same sound is coming out of both sides then you can't have any binaural beats left.

Of course this also cancels any stero effects that may be present in the bowls & rain drops part of the soundtrack.

Although I was very strictly using HS prologue and AL1 for about 1-2 yrs after I began using this method to create my own soundtracks I lost interest in listening and eventually stopped altogether.

Right now I'm trying to start listening to Awakend Minds soundtracks. I bought these some time ago but trying to switch from HS to awakened minds was impossible for me and I stopped listening altogether. I say impossible because I did not enjoy it all and sometimes created very strong reactions such as insomnia and headaches. Now that I haven't been listening to anything for a while I've had no problem beginning to listen to the awakened minds soundtracks.

The idea that there may be something "hidden" in the HS soundtracks is very disturbing. I certainly hope that is not the case.






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Thanks to everyone who has given some information here - it IS appreciated. I didn't feel that Publius1776 was very objective but was posting some very reactive comments. Perhaps if the comments were less emotional they may have had more impact.

I am a newbie use of Holosync - only 2 months into it. I was very hesitant about going ahead with it because of the very exy price tag. But... I had some spare cash and figured that if I didn't try it I'd never know if it was real or a scam. I don't think it is a scam but do wonder about the high price tag. I don't like the advertising material they have sent me but I do enjoy listening to the products.

So far, I really enjoy listening to it each day. And I loved the extra CDs from Bill's retreats. I did experience some 'overwhelm' but I wasn't sure if that was caused by the CDs or by the drama that was happening in my life at the time. I tend to think it may have been a bit of both.

I usually fall asleep before the CD finishes - even when sitting up! I think I will go ahead with the next level even if only to enjoy the virtual audio quality.

As for the placebo affect comments... who knows? I have a pretty flexible mind anyway. I've long done some form of mental gymnastics in order to cope with very emotional husband. Anything that I can feel a positive benefit from is a good thing as far as I am concerned. From my experience, mental rigidity seems to cause a lot of grief in those who refuse to be flexible.

I worked for five years as a polysomnographic technician doing sleep studies - monitoring and scoring brain waves so I find the background to this product quite intriguing. I would LOVE to have my brain waves monitored whilst using the product. And would love to have a 'before using' study and a 'after finishing' level one study.








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Like Graymatter, I too would like to know if there are any negative affects from manipulating brain waves. Without considering the organic changes and only the visible effects, Bill Harris doesn't appear to have suffered any ill effects, at least on the surface. Anyone who uses this techonology is, if effect, a guinea pig - including myself.

If you have the cash and inclination, at least try it. If you don't then... don't. The sky won't fall in either way.






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Your brainwaves get manipulated daily, hourly, continously, whether you are aware of it or not.

Decades of studies published about binaurals show that the soundwaves can clearly induce certain pre-dominant patterns.

How useful it is, (and how much of your own subconscious you wish to confront) really would depend on your own expectations, I suppose. There is no free lunch, and if this stuff works as advertised, you will have to deal with suppressed emotions and memories, as well as sometimes painful new insights about yourself, your motivations and your life decisions.

As for me, my few years of Holosync has exceeding any expectation I could have had for it.






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Lad,

How many years did do the holosync meditation and how many levels did
you do?


Just curious!!








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Hi All,

I've just done the audio analysis of AL3 and AL4

Here are the results :

Still nothing secret inside the CDs, just the BW entraining beats, and good sound engeniering.
AL3's carrier frequency is 80 Hz
AL4's carrier frequency is 60 Hz

Have fun with that.

Erwan






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So have you been enjoying your new level Erwan?

I bought the next level and have been enjoying it although I wonder if they put my affirmations in correctly as I can hear my voice saying what sounds like 'nothing' every so often (it is regular). I didn't have the word nothing in the affirmations so I am somewhat perlexed. I sent it to them as a zipped wav file.






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This weekend I analyzed Flowering 1....the carrier tone for that level is 15 Hz.
Which tends to support the theory that the final carrier (for Flowering Level 4) is 6 Hz, as suggested on the EZBoard site and elsewhere.






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