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#26356 02/18/02 02:36 PM
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Here is a link that may be of interest to those reading this topic ... http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/13/thoughts_technology.htm






#26357 02/18/02 05:28 PM
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dc21,

I saw a documentary recently where the military were testing a new technology that would move a fighter jet by the thoughts of the pilot. I guess thats just about the same concept as the thingy in your article.
But there's a big diference between being hooked up to a machine that moves something by recognizing the different brainwave patterns that you create by thinking about something and actually moving an object at a distance by the power of your mind.
Cool thing for disabled people, though!






#26358 02/19/02 01:01 AM
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Everyone had better be careful with this idea. Let's not forget how suggestive the human mind can be, despite its enormous abilities. Then again, even I was skeptical over PR, until I saw it proven.

BTW-what exactly IS Qigong? Wait. . .let me check the PR book. . .







#26359 02/19/02 04:18 AM
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Here goes my theory:

It's no mistake that the brain gives off different waves. My theory is that these slight combinations of waves radiate. Now, I truly believe that one who is well practiced can "feel" these waves, and interpret what they mean.

To me, this covers "mind reading".

I'm slowly debating whether or not these waves resound forever, though diminishing greatly over time, and absorbing into other things. If this is so, I think that when psychics read the thoughts of dead people, it's really just the imprints that their brainwaves have left on objects and people.

I mentioned an occurence of this a while ago on an older message, contained in this thread: http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001301.html

I get iffy on the physical manifestation part, meaning telekinesis. I believe in Qigong, but for scientific reasons as well as spiritual (I believe that at the very least, the placebo effect isn't an error, but the mind/body relationship knowing how to heal itself). Scientifically I believe that Chinese healers got the system perfect over thousands of years, they just used different ideas to represent the truth (like electromagnetic waves and such influencing your body, which is true, since radiation is similar to this).

As far as moving objects, I *do* get iffy on the physical aspect of it. Influencing movement on a straw tied to a string I can kinda see, but actually moving a pencil is a little more unbelievable (not that I don't believe it, it's just more unbelievable).

In sum:
Mind reading - definately; I've seen two instances of it that were foolproof
Mind control - not sure, though hypnosis definately works, as well as NLP
Telekinesis - can't say yes or no just yet

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

[This message has been edited by razordu30 (edited February 18, 2002).]






#26360 02/19/02 07:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by razordu30:
Here goes my theory]

I think you mean a hypothesis, a theory is something thats been repeatedly tested and widely accepted strictly speaking.

So what was the mindreading that was definitely "foolproof" as you say?







#26361 02/19/02 07:26 AM
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I would say "semantics", but I usually hate it when people say that, so I'll just say, "Okay. You're right, I mean hypothesis."

Foolproof - one was listed in the link I stated about my friend who had a guy tell him incredibly private information off a watch (without any feedback, either).

The other time was in high school, where we had a guy demonstrate it. My friends tried to screw with him: the mind reader asked a bunch of people to do different things. He asked my one friend Umberto, to think of a famous person and write the name in the envelope. He asked my other friend AJ to write down his favorite sport.

Umberto wrote down: Julia Roberts
AJ wrote down: baseball

The thing that made it fool proof was that the guy said, "I'm not going to interact with these envelopes, they're just for my own use, to see how accurate I was."

So everybody's like, "He's doing something to read what's in the envelope."

The mind reader asks all the students their different questions and gets them all right. But when he gets down to my two friends, they both mentally change their answers, so the only person who knew was them.

He goes to Umberto (who originally picked Julia Roberts) and said, "picture the person in your head." Umberto, of course having changed his answer, is thinking of someone other than Julia Roberts at this time. The mind reader goes, "Hmn...see, I can see the face, but I don't know who that is...he's black...tell you what...think of his name, instead. Okay, it's two parts. Puff Dragon...Puff Daddy? Is that it? Puff Daddy?" The guy said it like he must have been totally, since he had no idea who Puff Daddy was. But sure enough, Umberto had changed his answer to Puff Daddy and was astounded.

AJ didn't know he that Umberto did that, so when the mindreader got to AJ, he changed his as well (he originally picked baseball). The mindreader said, "it's a sport you play by yourself..."

Chuckles from the high schoolers.

At this time, I remembered that AJ loved bowling, and I figured that's what he wrote down, too. Sure enough the mind reader guesses bowling, and he was right.

What was amazing is that they BOTH tried to trick him by mentally picturing something other than what they wrote down, and he still got it right.

That convinced me, as well as the story in the link listed above.

I'm positive that mind-reading is possible, and in fact, I actually think that those who proclaim to be "really good psychics" are really just mind-readers who use the mysticism to help their business, OR they really think that these feelings or readings they get are genuinely spirits contacting them rather than the person's brainwaves.

I'm pretty sure that Johnathan Edwards and after seeing the radio show, even Miss Chloe have a mindreading capability.

Hypnosis works. I have myself on tape making an ass out of myself at my Project Graduation by a hypnotist. That's some really strong stuff.

Telekinesis, I guess, I'm unsure about because I haven't seen it in person (besides the straw thing, but I wouldn't really call that telekinesis per se).

Hypnosis and mindreading I've seen first hand, and am really convinced they work, not because of some strange mumbo jumbo, but I think that there's probably a scientific explanation that we'll stumble on sometime.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("There is no spoon.")






#26362 02/19/02 12:01 PM
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I believe it is possible, and more I learn about human body and mind, the more I believe. This is extremely long post, and I'm sorry if it bothers someone, but I had to get some things of my chest.

Xehupatl said:

quote:
Jovo, please tell me which book you were referring to! That would really interest me! Is it Silva mInd Control or what? Am greatly interested in developing TK.

No, it is not Silvas's book. I'll let you know in several hours, when I go home and see the author's name. But, I doubt that you'll be able to find it in bookstores.

Gino said:

quote:
There is not a single individual in the world that can move objects with his mind. If there was one, we should have read about him in Ginnes or in believe it or not. Guys, please get real. If you know one, please let the University of Miami know. They'll pay you and the gifted person top dollars for an interview. I can also be the middle man for a fee.

That's what you think. Let me just ask you this: If a guy had the ability to move the objects with his mind, wouldn't he know/see a little bit more than we "normal" people do? What I'm trying to say is that people with those abilities aren't interested in fame. They're after bigger things - getting to know themselves. (Like Travolta said in "Phenomenon": "I'm talking about human spirit. That's the secret. That's the voyage.")

jonah said:

quote:
Telekinesis or TK is explained in the book Silva Mind Control by Jose Silva. It is a real power. Be VERY CAREFUL. TK's power is of the same source as the Ouji board--demonic. This is a power that is better left alone.

I haven't read that book, but I don't believe that there is such a thing as demonic power. In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. For what purposes it can be used is completely different matter. But I am sure that one who learns how to control/use the energy (power) is able to do both good and bad. there is no need for him to learn how to control "good power" when he wants to do good, and "bad (demonic) power" when he wants to do bad things.
It's like a knife. You can use it to slice bread (which is good power) or to kill someone by stabbing him (which is bad power). The knife is the same. It's you who's doing good or bad. I believe this classification of power originated from exuses people make to escape responsibility for their action. Like: He was obsessed; He didn't know what he was doing; He can't stop (drinking, using drugs, beating his wife...); He wasn't himself. Someone else made him angry that's why he did that; and so on...

Lucky for most, it is not so simple to (re)gain control of our inborn abilities, and most of them require clear and clean mind. For example, crazy killer will never be able to move anything with his mind because his mind is a mess. One first has to learn to control himself in order to be able to control something/someone else. (The interesting thing is that once we learn to control ourselves, everything else seems to be right as it should. It's than that we see WHY things are the way they are.)
On the other hand, calm yogi who can control every movement of his body (even what we call involunary activity) surely has the ability to control energy and use it as he desires. What people don't understand is that people with such a clear mind see far more than average person does. Is it wonder than that they aren't after the same things we are.

Do the experiment: Watch news on TV and read the papers every day, whenever you get the chance. "Civilized world" is depicted in it. News, "achievements", records, good guys, bad guys, etc. Nothing special, just normal stuff. Do that for two weeks or more. Observe how your values change. You'll begin to think more about injustice in this world, about pain, you'll start dreaming more about success, fear more about everything; you'll doubt more, you'll be down and weary most of the time. Your mind will be a chaos of emotions and thoughts. You'll lose ability to concentrate as mind becomes foggy. This may sound dreastic, but try it and see.
Then stop watching TV and reading papers. Completely. Instead, read inspiring books, meditate, work on yourself. After a week or two, observe your thoughts and actions. Peace and satisfaction, smile and happines, love and sympathy... that's what you'll feel. Of course, there may be moments of fear, anxiety, nervousness, but generally you'll feel totally opposite of what you've felt before. The world is the same, it's you that's changed. You're after different things now. Money is no longer so important. Many things aren't. You're thinking clearly and you're after different things now.

With this experiment you won't gain ability to move things with your mind, but you will begin to see "somethin' else". (There's-just-more-to-it feeling).

chaosadelt said:

quote:
Thanks alot Gino, you ruined this post I was roflmao at the naivete of some people until you had to post something sane.
BTW, other than the U of Miami, JREF (www.randi.org) has a million dollar challenge for these kind of things, check it out.

Who's being naive now!? Those sort of "rewards" remind me of bad guarantees. ("Yes, of course there's a warantee." But when your product broke, they say "I'm terribly sorry, it seems that you have used our product improperly", or "you shouldn't have done that", or "Our warantee doesn't cover that"...). Things are the way we see them. They can always say "that's not enough" and "conclude that telekineseis is indeed just a product of naive people's imagination.

When you get a headache you probably go to drugstore and buy yourself a medicine. You drink it and feel fine. What that medicine did was beyond you, but you feel good because the pain is gone. And, pain is nothing more than the body's warning that something is wrong and needs paying attention to. So, you don't pay attention. After a while you switch to something stronger, and so on... The cause is not cured, just the effect.

The cause is the way of living. There are many ancient, and not so ancient ones, techniqes which enhance our health and change our lives for the better. Do we use them? No! What are we waiting for? Green light from some "organisation" or institution. Why? Because we're to lazy to try for ourselves. Experience is the best teacher. Don't wait for someone else to do something for you. You be the judge!

Did it ever ocurr to you that some institution and organizations are there to stop our progress? How else can you explain that we use oil when a car running on alternative ecological fuel has long been invented? If you were a doctor earning good money from his practice, would you let an average looking Chinese quigon teacher heal people for free, or you'd report him to authorities and try to stop his work. You wouldn't believe in it, not only because know nothing about it, but also because it may interfere with your work.

I have experience with homeopathy, which is just one of alternative medical therapies, and I can tell you that results are beyond my expectation (and you can see that I believe in this stuff quite a lot). Why don't we use any of alternative remedies in hospitals? There have been various "challenges" to prove effectivnes of many of those alternatives, but we're still not using any of them (or just starting to use fraction). Why? I don't know. But I do know that some are extremely useful. How I know? I tried! Follow your common sense, intuition... don't blindly believe everything you hear.








#26363 02/19/02 12:18 PM
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<< In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. >>

And therein also lies my philosophy. Very Tao =)

Have you ever read any of the Carlos Casteneda or the Dan Millman books?

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("The coffee machine agrees with me!" - Journey to Ixtlan)






#26364 02/19/02 02:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by razordu30:
<< In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. >>

And therein also lies my philosophy. Very Tao =)

Have you ever read any of the Carlos Casteneda or the Dan Millman books?

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("The coffee machine agrees with me!" - Journey to Ixtlan)


Who is Dan Millman? I've heard of Carlos Casteneda but not Dan Millman.






#26365 02/19/02 05:47 PM
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Dan Millman is good reading, but if you read Carlos Casteneda, it sounds suspiciously similar =/

I actually read Dan Millman's book first, but after I read Carlos Casteneda, I have to admit...the similarities are kinda noticeable.

I could be wrong, though...I mean, the Eastern philosophies all have that teacher/student thing going, so it's possible they just overlap.

That said, I love Dan Millman's writing.

His popular book was "Way of the Peaceful Warrior". Changed my life, really, or at least my view on it.

You realize that all the stuff we worry about is pointless, and that we set up our own illusions that cause us emotional stress.

He stays decidedly secular for the most part (strange, for a "New Age" book that develops spirituality), but it works well because it can apply to all religions.

It made me respect Christianity again (I wasn't just athiest, I was anti-God; not satanic, just really antagonistic. I don't wanna go into detail, but let's just leave it at I realized the good outweighed the bad tremendously).

I don't want to generalize since my view is much more complex than this, but for the most part, I think all religions point towards the same direction, and that direction will make us better people.

I went off-topic.

Dan Millman was great, and I highly recommend "Way of the Peaceful Warrior".

Sorry for digressing.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com






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