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#26336 02/14/02 04:49 PM
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the other day at my shrinks she told me that she met a lady in real life who could move a pen with her mind. That blew me away, i thought telekinesis was scient-fiction (i was a x-men huge fan growing up)
how can i develope my tk?
my theory is that i should work on my qi and increase my energy (im a sf qigong junkie)
and mabey be able to develope my tk that way.
any thoughts? Think it will work? am i just being dumb and hopeful? find out next time on the uncanny "boylans"
(just kidding)






#26337 02/14/02 07:28 PM
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My friend does this thing with Qigong where he moves a straw tied to a string from the end of a room.

It's pretty neat =)

I'm sure there could be a scientific explanation, but I'm sure there's a real reason qigong works anyway.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com






#26338 02/15/02 02:16 AM
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It's the same background as the wee gee board. Spiritual. I wouldn't mess with that stuff. Fun in the beginning nightmare later.

-Will






#26339 02/15/02 03:29 AM
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I'll show you how to move objects whith your mind. First, you take a big fat chunk of Marihuana. Second, put it inside of a 4 inch rolling paper, then rolled it up. Fourth, take 5 to 7 hits and wait for 20 minutes. After a while, you'll develop telekinesis.If not take another 4 hits and go outside. If the day is very windy, the leaves will move with your mind and not with the wind.

Good luck...

quote:
Originally posted by Boylanpower:
the other day at my shrinks she told me that she met a lady in real life who could move a pen with her mind. That blew me away, i thought telekinesis was scient-fiction (i was a x-men huge fan growing up)
how can i develope my tk?
my theory is that i should work on my qi and increase my energy (im a sf qigong junkie)
and mabey be able to develope my tk that way.
any thoughts? Think it will work? am i just being dumb and hopeful? find out next time on the uncanny "boylans"
(just kidding)








#26340 02/15/02 08:23 AM
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Gino, thats an extremely interesting theory that you have there I should try that sometimes ... but I would say that "your mind moves with the leaves" rather than the other way round.

[This message has been edited by Xehupatl (edited February 15, 2002).]






#26341 02/15/02 01:39 PM
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Boylan:

It sounds like a trick to me. I very seriously doubt she could do that.

There are some valid arguments for super-sensory esp, quantum level "esp", control of non-voluntary body functions, and some questionable evidence for remote viewing.

If you want to have any real hope of obtaining "ESP" then you'll probably want to try something that is possible like gaining contorl over non-voluntary body functions using biofeedback and meditation.

I've not reviewed this site ( http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ ) in detail but it seems to be one of the more credible sites devoted to this field.







#26342 02/15/02 03:12 PM
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why does it sound like a trick. Anyone who does qigong knows that we have enormous inner energies flowing through us that so far i have found very useful in healling myself. i just have to build up my qi and increase my energy and learn who to focus it outwardly. My pschologist is an honest person and says its true. i think its pretty cool to try to develope your esp.
thanks for the input.
ss some of you guys where very mean.







#26343 02/16/02 06:44 AM
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Boylan it's not a trick by any means. It's as real as it can get. The person's mind doesn't move anything. Ever heard of spirit channeling? That's what they do, and spirit goes and gets it not them. It's not scientific it's spiritual.

-Will






#26344 02/15/02 07:17 PM
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Telekinesis requires two things only: total concentration and a will. When I say only those two things I do mean only those two things. If there is something else involved it won't work.

The important thing is that concentration mustn't be forced. It has to be 100% focused, but but not forced. You must think only about what you're doing, what your goal is. No other thoughts whatsoever. Don't even expect it to happen. Just do it and let it happen.

Every mentally healthy person has this ability, but most of people don't even believe it, let alone try it. Don't think, however, that it's easy to do it. It requires practice. I've got a book which clearly describes exercises which awaken this ability. They are supposed to be done for approximatelly a year, although it varies for each person, and all of them base on concentration and visualisation.

There are many sites on the Net dealing with Telekinesis and such, and some offer ercises too. Although not completelly developed and partial, theese techniques can work, because they are all based on concentration/focus. That's all there is to it.






#26345 02/15/02 07:57 PM
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Jovo,
Which book is it that describes these exercises. That would interest me greatly. I Recently ordered "Mind Over Matter" by Loyd Auerbach and "The Psychic Reality" by ... umm I can't remember well I'm still waiting for them to arrive but I expect some insight into the real power of the human mind.






#26346 02/15/02 10:02 PM
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[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited February 18, 2002).]






#26347 02/16/02 12:00 AM
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ya my shrink to took the official esp test she had to sit in one room and another guy was in another room with different cardss there was a phone connection between the two to know when the cards change. She had to identify the cards of the person in the other room. She got like 75% wich means that she does have some psi ability. Then the guy in the other room came in and asked if she had tk and she said no (she thought it was impossible) he then moved a pen all over the desk with his mind. So she told me this story a while ago and it blew my mind away. Tk is actually possible.
wow.
me want.







#26348 02/16/02 02:39 AM
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Boylanpower,
Telekinesis or TK is explained in the book Silva Mind Control by Jose Silva. It is a real power. Be VERY CAREFUL. TK's power is of the same source as the Ouji board--demonic. This is a power that is better left alone.






#26349 02/17/02 01:04 AM
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Telekinesis ... Be VERY CAREFUL. TK's power is of the same source as the Ouji board--demonic. This is a power that is better left alone.

Uh, whatever.

This is total crap. Telekinesis is an esoteric electromagnetic energy. Nothing more, nothing less. To call it evil is... a fantasy. Everyone's got this energy. If they don't; they're DEAD. Your admonition is just...silly.

To demonstrate, I am turning a foil wheel as I type this sentence...12 revolutions per second. (not bad...ginseng must be kicking in.) ...but oh wait...Satan must be near... "Devils? Demons? Evil Spirits? Hello?" "Listen." .....nothing. tish tish, oh well.

btw, electricity is real, but you don't wanna mess with that--it's DEMONIC. Satan is in your light bulb! Don't mess with the light bulb man. It's black magic! Evil lurks there!!

Ignorance.

What was the difference between a Saint and a Witch in the 1600's? Not a whole helluva lot. A super-christian holy man has lots of energy, we call him a saint or miracle worker. A young commoner has lots of energy, she doesn't know why, usually can't help it if she is so vital, we call her a witch. Burn her! Diabolical machinations...






#26350 02/18/02 06:49 AM
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Jovo, please tell me which book you were referring to! That would really interest me! Is it Silva mInd Control or what? Am greatly interested in developing TK.
thanks






#26351 02/18/02 12:24 AM
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There is not a single individual in the world that can move objects with his mind. If there was one, we should have read about him in Ginnes or in believe it or not. Guys, please get real. If you know one, please let the University of Miami know. They'll pay you and the gifted person top dollars for an interview. I can also be the middle man for a fee.


quote:
Originally posted by Xehupatl:
Jovo, please tell me which book you were referring to! That would really interest me! Is it Silva mInd Control or what? Am greatly interested in developing TK.
thanks








#26352 02/18/02 03:47 AM
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Thanks alot Gino, you ruined this post I was roflmao at the naivete of some people until you had to post something sane.

BTW, other than the U of Miami, JREF (www.randi.org) has a million dollar challenge for these kind of things, check it out.

quote:
Originally posted by Gino:

There is not a single individual in the world that can move objects with his mind. If there was one, we should have read about him in Ginnes or in believe it or not. Guys, please get real. If you know one, please let the University of Miami know. They'll pay you and the gifted person top dollars for an interview. I can also be the middle man for a fee.










#26353 02/18/02 06:06 AM
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a man can dream .... a man can dream ....







#26354 02/18/02 06:19 AM
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...or a man can act...

I'm sending in my application tomorrow.

Telekinetic ability is so... manifestly obvious to me as to ... to say it's a fantasy is... well, funny.








#26355 02/18/02 09:00 AM
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Hehe , yeah well I don't doubt that telekinesis exists, I just want my subconscious to accept that phew well I'm gonna work on that

some people just don't have faith in the power of the human mind ... it's a shame, really ..

[This message has been edited by Xehupatl (edited February 18, 2002).]






#26356 02/18/02 02:36 PM
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Here is a link that may be of interest to those reading this topic ... http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/13/thoughts_technology.htm






#26357 02/18/02 05:28 PM
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dc21,

I saw a documentary recently where the military were testing a new technology that would move a fighter jet by the thoughts of the pilot. I guess thats just about the same concept as the thingy in your article.
But there's a big diference between being hooked up to a machine that moves something by recognizing the different brainwave patterns that you create by thinking about something and actually moving an object at a distance by the power of your mind.
Cool thing for disabled people, though!






#26358 02/19/02 01:01 AM
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Everyone had better be careful with this idea. Let's not forget how suggestive the human mind can be, despite its enormous abilities. Then again, even I was skeptical over PR, until I saw it proven.

BTW-what exactly IS Qigong? Wait. . .let me check the PR book. . .







#26359 02/19/02 04:18 AM
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Here goes my theory:

It's no mistake that the brain gives off different waves. My theory is that these slight combinations of waves radiate. Now, I truly believe that one who is well practiced can "feel" these waves, and interpret what they mean.

To me, this covers "mind reading".

I'm slowly debating whether or not these waves resound forever, though diminishing greatly over time, and absorbing into other things. If this is so, I think that when psychics read the thoughts of dead people, it's really just the imprints that their brainwaves have left on objects and people.

I mentioned an occurence of this a while ago on an older message, contained in this thread: http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001301.html

I get iffy on the physical manifestation part, meaning telekinesis. I believe in Qigong, but for scientific reasons as well as spiritual (I believe that at the very least, the placebo effect isn't an error, but the mind/body relationship knowing how to heal itself). Scientifically I believe that Chinese healers got the system perfect over thousands of years, they just used different ideas to represent the truth (like electromagnetic waves and such influencing your body, which is true, since radiation is similar to this).

As far as moving objects, I *do* get iffy on the physical aspect of it. Influencing movement on a straw tied to a string I can kinda see, but actually moving a pencil is a little more unbelievable (not that I don't believe it, it's just more unbelievable).

In sum:
Mind reading - definately; I've seen two instances of it that were foolproof
Mind control - not sure, though hypnosis definately works, as well as NLP
Telekinesis - can't say yes or no just yet

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

[This message has been edited by razordu30 (edited February 18, 2002).]






#26360 02/19/02 07:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by razordu30:
Here goes my theory]

I think you mean a hypothesis, a theory is something thats been repeatedly tested and widely accepted strictly speaking.

So what was the mindreading that was definitely "foolproof" as you say?







#26361 02/19/02 07:26 AM
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I would say "semantics", but I usually hate it when people say that, so I'll just say, "Okay. You're right, I mean hypothesis."

Foolproof - one was listed in the link I stated about my friend who had a guy tell him incredibly private information off a watch (without any feedback, either).

The other time was in high school, where we had a guy demonstrate it. My friends tried to screw with him: the mind reader asked a bunch of people to do different things. He asked my one friend Umberto, to think of a famous person and write the name in the envelope. He asked my other friend AJ to write down his favorite sport.

Umberto wrote down: Julia Roberts
AJ wrote down: baseball

The thing that made it fool proof was that the guy said, "I'm not going to interact with these envelopes, they're just for my own use, to see how accurate I was."

So everybody's like, "He's doing something to read what's in the envelope."

The mind reader asks all the students their different questions and gets them all right. But when he gets down to my two friends, they both mentally change their answers, so the only person who knew was them.

He goes to Umberto (who originally picked Julia Roberts) and said, "picture the person in your head." Umberto, of course having changed his answer, is thinking of someone other than Julia Roberts at this time. The mind reader goes, "Hmn...see, I can see the face, but I don't know who that is...he's black...tell you what...think of his name, instead. Okay, it's two parts. Puff Dragon...Puff Daddy? Is that it? Puff Daddy?" The guy said it like he must have been totally, since he had no idea who Puff Daddy was. But sure enough, Umberto had changed his answer to Puff Daddy and was astounded.

AJ didn't know he that Umberto did that, so when the mindreader got to AJ, he changed his as well (he originally picked baseball). The mindreader said, "it's a sport you play by yourself..."

Chuckles from the high schoolers.

At this time, I remembered that AJ loved bowling, and I figured that's what he wrote down, too. Sure enough the mind reader guesses bowling, and he was right.

What was amazing is that they BOTH tried to trick him by mentally picturing something other than what they wrote down, and he still got it right.

That convinced me, as well as the story in the link listed above.

I'm positive that mind-reading is possible, and in fact, I actually think that those who proclaim to be "really good psychics" are really just mind-readers who use the mysticism to help their business, OR they really think that these feelings or readings they get are genuinely spirits contacting them rather than the person's brainwaves.

I'm pretty sure that Johnathan Edwards and after seeing the radio show, even Miss Chloe have a mindreading capability.

Hypnosis works. I have myself on tape making an ass out of myself at my Project Graduation by a hypnotist. That's some really strong stuff.

Telekinesis, I guess, I'm unsure about because I haven't seen it in person (besides the straw thing, but I wouldn't really call that telekinesis per se).

Hypnosis and mindreading I've seen first hand, and am really convinced they work, not because of some strange mumbo jumbo, but I think that there's probably a scientific explanation that we'll stumble on sometime.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("There is no spoon.")






#26362 02/19/02 12:01 PM
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I believe it is possible, and more I learn about human body and mind, the more I believe. This is extremely long post, and I'm sorry if it bothers someone, but I had to get some things of my chest.

Xehupatl said:

quote:
Jovo, please tell me which book you were referring to! That would really interest me! Is it Silva mInd Control or what? Am greatly interested in developing TK.

No, it is not Silvas's book. I'll let you know in several hours, when I go home and see the author's name. But, I doubt that you'll be able to find it in bookstores.

Gino said:

quote:
There is not a single individual in the world that can move objects with his mind. If there was one, we should have read about him in Ginnes or in believe it or not. Guys, please get real. If you know one, please let the University of Miami know. They'll pay you and the gifted person top dollars for an interview. I can also be the middle man for a fee.

That's what you think. Let me just ask you this: If a guy had the ability to move the objects with his mind, wouldn't he know/see a little bit more than we "normal" people do? What I'm trying to say is that people with those abilities aren't interested in fame. They're after bigger things - getting to know themselves. (Like Travolta said in "Phenomenon": "I'm talking about human spirit. That's the secret. That's the voyage.")

jonah said:

quote:
Telekinesis or TK is explained in the book Silva Mind Control by Jose Silva. It is a real power. Be VERY CAREFUL. TK's power is of the same source as the Ouji board--demonic. This is a power that is better left alone.

I haven't read that book, but I don't believe that there is such a thing as demonic power. In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. For what purposes it can be used is completely different matter. But I am sure that one who learns how to control/use the energy (power) is able to do both good and bad. there is no need for him to learn how to control "good power" when he wants to do good, and "bad (demonic) power" when he wants to do bad things.
It's like a knife. You can use it to slice bread (which is good power) or to kill someone by stabbing him (which is bad power). The knife is the same. It's you who's doing good or bad. I believe this classification of power originated from exuses people make to escape responsibility for their action. Like: He was obsessed; He didn't know what he was doing; He can't stop (drinking, using drugs, beating his wife...); He wasn't himself. Someone else made him angry that's why he did that; and so on...

Lucky for most, it is not so simple to (re)gain control of our inborn abilities, and most of them require clear and clean mind. For example, crazy killer will never be able to move anything with his mind because his mind is a mess. One first has to learn to control himself in order to be able to control something/someone else. (The interesting thing is that once we learn to control ourselves, everything else seems to be right as it should. It's than that we see WHY things are the way they are.)
On the other hand, calm yogi who can control every movement of his body (even what we call involunary activity) surely has the ability to control energy and use it as he desires. What people don't understand is that people with such a clear mind see far more than average person does. Is it wonder than that they aren't after the same things we are.

Do the experiment: Watch news on TV and read the papers every day, whenever you get the chance. "Civilized world" is depicted in it. News, "achievements", records, good guys, bad guys, etc. Nothing special, just normal stuff. Do that for two weeks or more. Observe how your values change. You'll begin to think more about injustice in this world, about pain, you'll start dreaming more about success, fear more about everything; you'll doubt more, you'll be down and weary most of the time. Your mind will be a chaos of emotions and thoughts. You'll lose ability to concentrate as mind becomes foggy. This may sound dreastic, but try it and see.
Then stop watching TV and reading papers. Completely. Instead, read inspiring books, meditate, work on yourself. After a week or two, observe your thoughts and actions. Peace and satisfaction, smile and happines, love and sympathy... that's what you'll feel. Of course, there may be moments of fear, anxiety, nervousness, but generally you'll feel totally opposite of what you've felt before. The world is the same, it's you that's changed. You're after different things now. Money is no longer so important. Many things aren't. You're thinking clearly and you're after different things now.

With this experiment you won't gain ability to move things with your mind, but you will begin to see "somethin' else". (There's-just-more-to-it feeling).

chaosadelt said:

quote:
Thanks alot Gino, you ruined this post I was roflmao at the naivete of some people until you had to post something sane.
BTW, other than the U of Miami, JREF (www.randi.org) has a million dollar challenge for these kind of things, check it out.

Who's being naive now!? Those sort of "rewards" remind me of bad guarantees. ("Yes, of course there's a warantee." But when your product broke, they say "I'm terribly sorry, it seems that you have used our product improperly", or "you shouldn't have done that", or "Our warantee doesn't cover that"...). Things are the way we see them. They can always say "that's not enough" and "conclude that telekineseis is indeed just a product of naive people's imagination.

When you get a headache you probably go to drugstore and buy yourself a medicine. You drink it and feel fine. What that medicine did was beyond you, but you feel good because the pain is gone. And, pain is nothing more than the body's warning that something is wrong and needs paying attention to. So, you don't pay attention. After a while you switch to something stronger, and so on... The cause is not cured, just the effect.

The cause is the way of living. There are many ancient, and not so ancient ones, techniqes which enhance our health and change our lives for the better. Do we use them? No! What are we waiting for? Green light from some "organisation" or institution. Why? Because we're to lazy to try for ourselves. Experience is the best teacher. Don't wait for someone else to do something for you. You be the judge!

Did it ever ocurr to you that some institution and organizations are there to stop our progress? How else can you explain that we use oil when a car running on alternative ecological fuel has long been invented? If you were a doctor earning good money from his practice, would you let an average looking Chinese quigon teacher heal people for free, or you'd report him to authorities and try to stop his work. You wouldn't believe in it, not only because know nothing about it, but also because it may interfere with your work.

I have experience with homeopathy, which is just one of alternative medical therapies, and I can tell you that results are beyond my expectation (and you can see that I believe in this stuff quite a lot). Why don't we use any of alternative remedies in hospitals? There have been various "challenges" to prove effectivnes of many of those alternatives, but we're still not using any of them (or just starting to use fraction). Why? I don't know. But I do know that some are extremely useful. How I know? I tried! Follow your common sense, intuition... don't blindly believe everything you hear.








#26363 02/19/02 12:18 PM
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<< In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. >>

And therein also lies my philosophy. Very Tao =)

Have you ever read any of the Carlos Casteneda or the Dan Millman books?

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("The coffee machine agrees with me!" - Journey to Ixtlan)






#26364 02/19/02 02:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by razordu30:
<< In fact, I don't believe there is good or evil power. There is only power. >>

And therein also lies my philosophy. Very Tao =)

Have you ever read any of the Carlos Casteneda or the Dan Millman books?

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("The coffee machine agrees with me!" - Journey to Ixtlan)


Who is Dan Millman? I've heard of Carlos Casteneda but not Dan Millman.






#26365 02/19/02 05:47 PM
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Dan Millman is good reading, but if you read Carlos Casteneda, it sounds suspiciously similar =/

I actually read Dan Millman's book first, but after I read Carlos Casteneda, I have to admit...the similarities are kinda noticeable.

I could be wrong, though...I mean, the Eastern philosophies all have that teacher/student thing going, so it's possible they just overlap.

That said, I love Dan Millman's writing.

His popular book was "Way of the Peaceful Warrior". Changed my life, really, or at least my view on it.

You realize that all the stuff we worry about is pointless, and that we set up our own illusions that cause us emotional stress.

He stays decidedly secular for the most part (strange, for a "New Age" book that develops spirituality), but it works well because it can apply to all religions.

It made me respect Christianity again (I wasn't just athiest, I was anti-God; not satanic, just really antagonistic. I don't wanna go into detail, but let's just leave it at I realized the good outweighed the bad tremendously).

I don't want to generalize since my view is much more complex than this, but for the most part, I think all religions point towards the same direction, and that direction will make us better people.

I went off-topic.

Dan Millman was great, and I highly recommend "Way of the Peaceful Warrior".

Sorry for digressing.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com






#26366 02/19/02 05:56 PM
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Oh, and as a side note:

<<Why don't we use any of alternative remedies in hospitals? >>

Actually, my girlfriend's dad had a stroke, and he went to Kessler, where they have a very good record with stroke victims.

The medication wasn't doing anything, and he remained paralyzed on his left side (I think it was his left).

They stopped treatment and tried acupuncture instead.

He has regained *use* on his once paralyzed side, although it's obviously not what it used to be.

This was passed the period where they basically say, "He hasn't had enough progress, he probably won't improve much".

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com






#26367 02/20/02 06:44 AM
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tk is based on the movement of human energy/electricity through the air.

some believe in it, some don't as it can't be scientifically measured. i tend to believe it's possible even though the record for it is sketchy; i don't believe anyone has even come close to tapping the energy inherent in tk. geller, castaneda, and the like are only the tip of the iceberg. qigong and tai chi chuan are more in line with tk but again are only the tip of the iceberg. and the shamans, palm readers, and people like miss cleo make a mockery of tk. there's more to it than that.

for those who want to know how to harness it, i would say use it properly. it's not an energy that should be used for silly parlor tricks.

sometimes you're better off not knowing how to do certain things until you're ready to use them responsibly.






#26368 02/20/02 04:45 PM
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The truth is....telekinesis works.

Unfortunately, it requires taking time to train your brain to direct the necessary energies which can manipulate material objects.

For the rather small amount of actual practice I've done personally with the triangle exercise, and the visual proof as it begins spinning in different directions, it's more than obvious that telekinesis is a real, cultivatable skill.






#26369 02/20/02 07:11 PM
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x wrote:
quote:
for those who want to know how to harness it, i would say use it properly. it's not an energy that should be used for silly parlor tricks.

One who manages to harness it will use it properly. Egoistic wishes like a wish to prove oneself by making tricks interferes with clearing your mind, thus inability to control energy. Thoughts are also energy, although in very sublte form, and if one can't control energy he's producing, than he certainly won't be able to control energy of other objects.

razordu30 wrote:

quote:
Have you ever read any of the Carlos Casteneda or the Dan Millman books?...Actually, my girlfriend's dad had a stroke, and he went to Kessler, where they have a very good record with stroke victims...He has regained *use* on his once paralyzed side, although it's obviously not what it used to be.

No, I haven't. I've never even heard of Casteneda, but name Millman is familiar to me (I haven't read him though). Thanks for recomendation!
By the way, who's Kessler?

When I was about 10 (I'm 22 now), my dad had a car accident. Luckily, the only thing that got broken was his knee cap (I believe that's the word for it). This means that he couldn't bend his leg in knee. No medications could help him walk again. The only way was to practice every day, and that practice consisted of forcefull bending of knee, bit by bit, and that was very painful. (I hope you don't know how much.) After a year he could walk again, and today his knee is fully functional.
My point is is that he achieved full recovery only after a year of every-day practice, constant work on himself. Although he didn't use any alternative remedies (didn't know of any than), he did use strong will and patience. If he didn't he'd be invalid now. Same applies with every health problem. Alophatic medicine is strong and acts quickly, but every medicine is bad for certain organ in the body. Alternative medicine (generally speaking) is more subtle, natural way to heal the body. It works differently, on whole body, so that it can become stronger and heals itself. For cases like those of your girlfriend's dad, it takes long time to make an improvement. Most people, however, give up if they don't see results within first few weeks/months. (Just think how much time it took us to make it ill!) Our bodies are a link to this world. If they are weak, we won't enjoy this life as much as we could otherwise. That's why we should constantly work on keeping our body healthy, especially when we're ill. Your girlfriend's dad might never be as healthy as before, but he surely will be more healthy if he keeps working on himself (and there are many ways to do that) than if he surrenders. Just a thought
Since I know a bit about alternative medice, I'd recommend Bach therapy or Homeopathy. Don't know anythinga about this case, but I believe these two therapies would help him, at least a bit. I don't know if it's free or not there (since some practitioners make their living of of it), but keep this in mind.

Xehupatl said:

quote:
Jovo, please tell me which book you were referring to!

Here it goes (finally, you say ): "Psichic Training of Indian Fakirs and Yogis" by Zivorad Mihajlovic-Slavinski. I probably misspelled first word in title-it's supposed to mean something like mental(not like watching-the-bowl-to-see-the-future thing). The title itself may be a bit misleading, but the book cleared many things for me. It's very practical. Something like a school book for harnessing one's latent powers. Telekinesis is just one result of one's successful practice.






#26370 02/20/02 07:21 PM
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Jovo: FINALLY!!
thanks man I hope I can find it anywhere. If not I'll find a way to make you copy every single page and send them to me:
sriously though, Dana, your reply was really inspiring

In the last couple of days a crazy thought came into my mind (yeah it'll sound really naive but what the heck ): If you were to master TK to an awe-inspiring degree (pick up reasonably heavy object, bend stuff, push buttons from a distance away), wouldn't it be extremely dangerous: in your sleep, that you couldn't really control it, and on other people. Imagine getting really mad at your computer and smashing your monitor-display with your thoughts!

Some may argue that for TK, you'd have to be well concentrated and peaceful and relaxed. But hell, if you master that stuff so that you can use it without to much time-consumption (directing your thoughts, getting in the flow...), what would happen if you get really angry at something, or worse: someone

la: "Luke, I am your father!"

and don't tell me you'd purposely have to change to the dark side to be able to use this power for destructive purposes.

just a thought.


and for all you doubters out there:

If you believe there are limits, you will work within them.

HA

[This message has been edited by Xehupatl (edited February 20, 2002).]






#26371 02/20/02 07:49 PM
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On another matter .. I tried to find the book I requested from Jovo but could only find it in Slavinski's native language. I have e-mailed him (the author, not Jovo) and hopefully he knows where I can get an english version ...

hmm I was browsing around on the internet, and check out www.psychics.co.uk/shop/bookshop.html or just www.psychics.co.uk .
Maybe some of you have some of these books and can tell me something about them.
Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Xehupatl (edited February 20, 2002).]






#26372 02/20/02 09:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chaosadelt:
a theory is something thats been repeatedly tested and widely accepted strictly speaking.

Congradulations, you've just won the coveted Douche Bag of the Year award!!! <standing ovation>






#26373 02/20/02 11:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dana Hanson:
The truth is....telekinesis works.

Unfortunately, it requires taking time to train your brain to direct the necessary energies which can manipulate material objects.

For the rather small amount of actual practice I've done personally with the triangle exercise, and the visual proof as it begins spinning in different directions, it's more than obvious that telekinesis is a real, cultivatable skill.


I can see it now. . ."introducing the Learning Strategies Corporation Telekinesis self-study course!"






#26374 02/20/02 11:48 PM
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Hehehe, douche bag of the year award...

To answer a small question asked before:

"Who's Kessler?"

Sorry, I just realized that outside of NJ, it's probably not that well known. Kessler is a hospital that's famed for what I think is it's rehab program (not drugs...physical therapy type stuff).

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com






#26375 02/21/02 05:27 AM
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there must be other ways to develop tk besides lifting X wing fighters out of swamps on dagobah, telling people 'there is no spoon' :P, and bending backward to dodge slow-motion bullets and such.








#26376 02/21/02 05:53 AM
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there must be other ways

Check out the "Egely Wheel" at

www.toolsforwellness.com








#26377 02/21/02 10:10 PM
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OK... I feel like I have too much to say on this subject, especially in light of some of the posts. I will however try (unlike some others) to be as brief as possible.

Any of you who have read any of my brief infrequent posts will have noticed one common theme. I am a Christian. I am a radical, sold out, no way I'm ever going back to the world, Christian. I have seen posts on this topic from others I would recognixe to be CHristians as well. Others who ascribe to themselves no religious affiliation.

I am not one of those people who arbitrarily ascribes anything I do not fully understand to demonic origin. I hold to this same philosophy when it comes to this present topic of telekinesis. I know that from a scientific standpoint that the brain produces electromagnetic energy and can therefore exert an influence on material objects. That is a scientific fact proven by methods such as creskins ESP (which is not really ESP at all.) It is also a law of physics that electricital current moving through a conductor (read: Neurological Materal)produces a magnetic field. That is not the issue hear. Does the brain have the capability to produce enough electromagnetic energy to move a car as opposed to a small foil wheel. It remains to be seen. From a theological (or philisophical, if you rather)point of view. I cannot help but question, what is the most excellent way? There is a level of power that stems wholly from the spiritual realm that has nothing to do with The electromagnetic producing capabilities of the human brain. I read in these posts that many have moved that little foil wheel. That is great. When I was younger, I was able to change the direction of a medalion swinging from a chain dangling from my fingers with only my thoughts. I have read in the Bible that Jesus commanded a tree to stop producing fruit, and it stopped. When the disciples asked Jesus how he did it, He answered "Have faith in God", (Notice, not have faith in yourself.) More astounding is how He caused a man dead for four days to walk out of his tomb. He wasn't sleeping for there was already visible decay and the stench of death. This cannot be explained with mind control...but it happened nonetheless. The core of what I am saying is, explore the mind's astounding capabilities, no problem. But recognize what is natural, and discern it from what is spiritual. And there is a negative spiritual aspect... The demonic element, but we won't go into that. The point is that there is a more exellent way. Do you want to use the power of you mind to turn a wheel, or the power of God to raise the dead. That's the choice you must make.

Peace.






#26378 02/21/02 11:04 PM
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Raising the dead through the power of God is not God. Doing that would be deceptive of God, as predicted in several books of the Bible, mostly emphasized in Revelation. Telekenisis is not demonic, nor is PR, QiGong, Aura, or anything else. God gave the human these abilities to use with their free will should they discover it.

By using tk to help yourself and others, possibly mastering it in daily life, it's not just having the "power," to move objects with your mind. And by the way, I am also Christian, and I really think you lost your point, if you were going to make one, Godchild.

You wrote a lot of stuff about tk, but nothing about. . . .having a point to what you wrote.

Who here REALLY understands why PhotoReading works? Or how the mind works? No one even knows what the hell the brain does, and what it is, let alone what's demonic. Choosing to make anything that you can't fully understand demonic is right up ignorant. You cannot use that philosophy and expect to advance in life.

"That's impossible, it must be demonic if someone can really do it."<---Yeah, UH-HUH, WHATEVER.

Telekenisis is a skill that should be fine tuned, and used for good purposes. Nothing new, and revolutionary happens anywhere in the world anymore, because most people are stuck with this idea in their head that what they've learned, what they know, has to be true, and there is no other truth.

That's wrong. People are afraid of what they cannot understand because it is likely new, and simply beyond their reach. Back in the stone age, tool age, there was a low population all over the world, and so the word of something new and true spreading and it being believed was easy. Now, we're six and a half billion occupping the entire planet's surface, with the "laws," and "theories," of physics, science, and the "truths," of religion to cling to. Nothing else. With a mindset like that, dow does the human race plan to survive to the year 4000? One day there will likely be no more wood to cut, and that day will be the end. How do we expect to surivive a natural disaster? How would we know what to do if a man became more powerful than the rest of the world? Today, we have the impulsing human, believing what is taught is true, and nothing else.

There are things hiding in the shadows today, that no one will probably ever find out for millions of years. The governments of the different nations act like they're in control, and know what the world, or their country should be. . .yeah. . .RIGHT.

Back to telekenisis. Mastering a skill like this, and yes - I now am convinced, is just one more movement toward EVOLUTION.








#26379 02/22/02 01:53 AM
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I am a Christian.

Believe it or not, I'm envious. I wish I could allow myself to have total faith in...anything! It seems that everything is open to question now. Life was so much simpler when I was a christian. The answers were manifest, plain, right there. The path, already laid out. Meaning? Yep, a complete package. And it's functional too. I mean, it works. It just got to the point after doing so much reading and experimentation that... I couldn't maintain my faith anymore so given the newfound knowledge and experience. Makes me a little sad, actually.


I know that from a scientific standpoint that the brain produces electromagnetic energy and can therefore exert an influence on material objects.

Not so fast, mate. I own a gausimeter, measures typical magnetism/EMF radiation. The meter does not move when I put it up to my skin. I cannot make the meter move. Likewise, I cannot make my hand stick a refrigerator. Telekinetic energy IS some form of electromagnetic energy, yes, but it is far far different from the brainwave or refrigerator magnet ilk.


I read in these posts that many have moved that little foil wheel. That is great.

It is not just a wheel, it is a biofeedback device for telekinesis, chi, and overall vitality. It is so sensitive, you don't even have to use your mind to turn it. This allows you to measure your base level of Vitality. It gives you a rating. Why is this useful?

As with all biofeedback devices, you can quickly and effortlessly train your mind to control this TK energy. Where without a way to measure progress, you are more or less shooting in the dark. It is the same with EEGs and stethoscopes. If you use a stethoscope, it is very very easy to know what type of thoughts decrease your heart rate, what foods increase it, the 'target zone' for running, etc. If you own an EEG, it is likewise very easy to enter an alpha or theta state, because you can see your progress right in front of you. "How do I enter the photofocus state very fast?" can be answered and learned by the individual in no time at all. Biofeedback is ... good stuff.

Secondly, it matters how fast you are able to turn it. If your TK/chi energy is low, then you're going to get sick. If it's high, then you'll never get sick, age slower, have genius powers, super-positive mood, unlimited energy, etc. I haven't gotten sick in over 30 months and I doubt I ever will again thanks to this thing.

...well, I just wanted to point out that it is much MUCH more than 'turning a little foil wheel'.

Explore the mind's astounding capabilities, no problem. But recognize what is natural, and discern it from what is spiritual.

What is spiritual? What is natural?
How do you distinguish?

"If science has proven it, it is natural. If science has yet to recognize it, it requires faith and is therefore spiritual." Is that your assertion?

Mainstream science does *not* recognize TK energy. Nowhere in any college physics textbook will you find the merest mention of it. You cannot simply explain it away by calling it electric or magnetic--it is both, but it is also... different as we have no means of measuring it other than with the Egely Wheel and Kirilan Photography.

And if something cannot be measures, by the laws of science, it does not exist... is that not so?







#26380 02/22/02 02:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian649:
[b]I am a Christian.

Believe it or not, I'm envious. I wish I could allow myself to have total faith in...anything! It seems that everything is open to question now. Life was so much simpler when I was a christian. The answers were manifest, plain, right there. The path, already laid out. Meaning? Yep, a that the brain produces electromagnetic energy and can therefore exert an influence on material objects. [complete package. And it's functional too. I mean, it works. It just got to the point after doing so much reading and experimentation that... I couldn't maintain my faith anymore so given the newfound knowledge and experience. Makes me a little sad, actually.


I know that from a scientific standpoint /b]

Not so fast, mate. I own a gausimeter, measures typical magnetism/EMF radiation. The meter does not move when I put it up to my skin. I cannot make the meter move. Likewise, I cannot make my hand stick a refrigerator. Telekinetic energy IS some form of electromagnetic energy, yes, but it is far far different from the brainwave or refrigerator magnet ilk.


[b]I read in these posts that many have moved that little foil wheel. That is great.

It is not just a wheel, it is a biofeedback device for telekinesis, chi, and overall vitality. It is so sensitive, you don't even have to use your mind to turn it. This allows you to measure your base level of Vitality. It gives you a rating. Why is this useful?

As with all biofeedback devices, you can quickly and effortlessly train your mind to control this TK energy. Where without a way to measure progress, you are more or less shooting in the dark. It is the same with EEGs and stethoscopes. If you use a stethoscope, it is very very easy to know what type of thoughts decrease your heart rate, what foods increase it, the 'target zone' for running, etc. If you own an EEG, it is likewise very easy to enter an alpha or theta state, because you can see your progress right in front of you. "How do I enter the photofocus state very fast?" can be answered and learned by the individual in no time at all. Biofeedback is ... good stuff.

Secondly, it matters how fast you are able to turn it. If your TK/chi energy is low, then you're going to get sick. If it's high, then you'll never get sick, age slower, have genius powers, super-positive mood, unlimited energy, etc. I haven't gotten sick in over 30 months and I doubt I ever will again thanks to this thing.

...well, I just wanted to point out that it is much MUCH more than 'turning a little foil wheel'.

Explore the mind's astounding capabilities, no problem. But recognize what is natural, and discern it from what is spiritual.

What is spiritual? What is natural?
How do you distinguish?

"If science has proven it, it is natural. If science has yet to recognize it, it requires faith and is therefore spiritual." Is that your assertion?

Mainstream science does *not* recognize TK energy. Nowhere in any college physics textbook will you find the merest mention of it. You cannot simply explain it away by calling it electric or magnetic--it is both, but it is also... different as we have no means of measuring it other than with the Egely Wheel and Kirilan Photography.

And if something cannot be measures, by the laws of science, it does not exist... is that not so?[/B]


So, then your saying it's spiritual, since TK is not reconized by mainstream science.







#26381 02/22/02 03:31 AM
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So, then your saying it's spiritual, since TK is not reconized by mainstream science.

Well, I recognize it. I can cause it and I can measure it. So, to me it is very "natural", but to someone like Chaosadealt, it would probably fall under "spiritual" or quackery.

Depends on your background.






#26382 02/22/02 03:18 PM
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OK, I'm not getting into the theological debate as to what is science and what is spiritual. But to YoungPrer I will say... I never said that I thought TK was demonic. I certainly don't believe that PR is demonic or I wouldn't be a Photoreader. I am only saying that there needs to be a discerning between that which is a product of natural science, and that which is spiritual. I believe that what many of you are expressing as TK is perfectly natural and not demonic or of a spiritual nature. It is the older brother of the new technologies that control machines with thought. Perfectly scientific. I do however recognize that there is a powerful side to the spiritual. I have seen it, and I have lived it. If I told you some of the stories of how God has operated through my faith in Him, some of you would say I was crazy. YoungPrer, I would like to see your scriptural evidence that raising the dead is deceptive and not God. I can certainly show scriptures to show that ressurection is definitely a God thing. Read I Cor 15, Paul goes into quite alot of detail on raising the dead. That is all I'm Going to Say About That. Except this. Ressurection was not my ultimate point... That there is indescribable power in a vital, ongoing relationship with Christ, That, YoungPrer, was my point....I think I did express that.






#26383 02/22/02 05:37 PM
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TK IS natural. By 'demonic', I meant that if it is taken to extremes and not kept in check, then the outcomes become disasterous.
I DO belivethat it is BOTH natural and spiritual.

[This message has been edited by jonah (edited February 22, 2002).]






#26384 02/23/02 06:15 AM
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By 'demonic', I meant that if it is taken to extremes and not kept in check, then the outcomes become disasterous.

Jonah, this is an honest question:
In what way the level of chi, taken to an extreme, become disasterous? What negative outcomes are you referring to?

I write that from a position of sincere curiosity. I mean... if it's dangerous, I want to know about it!






#26385 02/23/02 06:48 AM
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People can misuse powers.
Take the Christian church of the middle ages,
it was illegal for a lay person to know how to read, the only people allowed to learn to read was the priests. This was so the Church could 'control' the people, they wouldn't have nothing but the say so of the Church. It was forbidden to write or speak scripture in any language except Latin.
When Witch Hunts in Mass. in the 1600s, anyone could be branded a witch, if they had a different look or thought.
My point is that all through history, things and ideas that have been ment for good has and will continue to be misused for personal gain.
If TK is used to lift a car off of someone that was ran over--it is good. But if TK is used to remove a jack supporting a car while a person is under it, TK then becomes a dangerous thing.
Hope this helps.






#26386 02/22/02 11:45 PM
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For some reason, I can't seem to do any tk, but there have been tons of kids my age that I know. . .who say, "That's impossible." Only four years ago, all of my friends and I had believed in it, and tried it. Then we all laughed and said, "this doesn't work."

One question that I always asked myself was, "How did I make that frisby drop directly from the ground while in mid-flight?"
Or perhaps my friend Chase asking himself:

"When Scott was spinning that frisby on his finger, how did I change its direction?"

My opinion of spirituality is that there is no seperation between the side of that, and the scientific side. Sciece IS God. That's what most of the scientists don't understand, and their mode of thinking will only get them so far. It's the more mysterious things and "unlogical," things that are usually the more effective, and the more real over issues such as this.

Reserrection is of Christ, Godchild, but not of the people. Beware of someone who can bring a person truely back from the dead, because that person is either Christ, or Anti-Christ.

Anyway! Thanks to this topic, I'm back to trying the entire thing again. Except when I was younger those few years ago, I thought I had "powers," not tk, but it was the same basic thing.

In the end, all my friends and I agreed that it couldn't be done, but we still had all of those images of the things we did when we did believe in it. They were undeniable, but somehow my mind chose to go to sleep with it after a while. . .






#26387 02/23/02 07:08 PM
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Youngprer,

I really enjoy theological debate... I find it quite energizing. This forum however, is not designed for that. I don't come at you with any attitude but freindly discussion between two believers. If you would like to discuss the issue of ressurection further, I would be glad to, on a different medium, perhaps email. Any ways one last barb:

Acts 9:36-40 Tabitha was dead, raised to life by God through Peter

Acts 20- the story of Paul bringing a dead man back to life.

In I Corinthians 15, While it is true that Paul is speaking of Christ's ressurection, He is using His ressurection as proof that the dead can be raised, and ressurection as proof that Christ did raise up:
--------------------------------
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
---------------------------------
You see the fact that Christ was raised up is hope that others can also be raised. Acts shows plainly that others did operate in the ministry of raising the dead, through the power of God.

God Bless,

Godchild






#26388 02/23/02 07:26 PM
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.

[This message has been edited by Xehupatl (edited February 23, 2002).]






#26389 10/10/03 04:56 AM
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I typed this with my mind.






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