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#4255 04/18/02 06:52 PM
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Greetings,
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=892542&lastnode_id=124
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720

Polyphasic sleep. Basically every four hours, you sleep for 15 minutes or some variation on that. You can bring your sleep down to 2 hours a day or 22 waking hours.

I stumbled upon something similar last year. I used a mind machine to get 90 minutes of deeper-than-NREM-IV sleep, twice a day. 90 minutes extreme delta brainwaves, then 10.5 hours waking. After about 5 days hellish adjustment, I became a totally unself-conscious, primal, raw-fueled ultra-genius. The problem with this? I lost my ability to focus, because I wasn't getting any REM.

Polyphasic sleep is the opposite--it's *just* REM. Your head hits the pillow, you get 20 minutes of REM, you're good to go for another 4 hours. This basically means you have to eat really healthy and get a full day's/week's rest every couple months or so.


I know, I know, you're saying, "Brian, this is dangerous and will have deleterious effects on your mind and body."

To this, I say, Leonardo Da Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Buckminster Fuller used this *exact* technique. Other great minds likewise used polyphasic sleep less extremely to their advantage including Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, Napoleon, and Winston Churchhill.

Naps are the key to direct Theta brainwave access. Theta brainwaves are the brainwaves of the Ultra Genius. The more theta you have during your waking hours, the more creatively intelligent you are--it's really that simple.

But wouldn't this have negative effects on thinking ability? Apparently not, as a sleep scientist in the 1992 book called "Why We Nap" studied the phenomenon and showed that tests of intellectual ability actually go up.

But wouldn't this have negative effects on energy level? The qualitative description of those who succeed in acclimating to the sleep schedule describe themselves as feeling more energetic than they can remember. (My sleep experience concurs with both these energy and intelligence claims, except I lost my ability to focus, because I wasn't getting any REM.)

Race Boat people use this technique to race perpetually. Astronauts use this technique during insoluable crises. Military men, especially marines, also use this technique in training.

The book determined that polyphasic sleep works, but when prolonged past two months, showed negative health effects on some. He wrote that you can go up to a year on the system and one of the links above is written by someone who religiously did this for 6 months with zero negative feedback and full praise.

By a strange coincidence, Leonardo DaVinci and Buckminster Fuller are the two people I admire most in this world. I have always felt that they had reached perfection as much as any one person could reach perfection--even more than holymen like Jesus or Buddha. They were abjectly selfless contributors, BUT they lived also for progress. The Renaissance Man is the perfect combination of the natural and humanistic ideals of both East and West.

So... if my two greatest heroes were BOTH polyphasic sleepers ... "hmmm". I'd be in good company, don't you think? As far as longevity, Fuller lived to 102. DaVinci into his 80's. --Both lived over DOUBLE the average life expectancy of the men of their time.

If you'd like to get a tad bit of background on Bucky Fuller's catharsis, check out: http://www.doctorg.com/buckyfuller.htm
He is, quite incidentally, the greatest man who has ever lived. :-) (I'm sure Paul Scheele would agree too!)

In Wakefulness,

Brian






#4256 04/18/02 08:06 PM
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Hi Brian. Nice to hear from you again. And thanks for the links. I've been trying to find out more about this uberman's sleep schedule.

I agree Bucky and Da Vince were true geniuses. When I was in high school (a loooooong time ago) we once built a small Bucky's dome outside our school as an info booth on open house. Bucky was a completely self-made man. And selfless too. Very admirable indeed.






#4257 04/18/02 08:17 PM
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It's interesting that you lost your ability to focus after 5 days of sleep deprivation. I've been to meditation retreats where I'd get about 5 hours a night to lie down (not necessarily sleep), the rest of the day, no lying down was allowed. The ability of the participants to focus and concentrate usually became better as the days went on (that's the whole idea). Of course, that's getting nearly twice as many hours of rest time as your schedule. But then again, the rest was meant for the body, as long as one wasn't asleep, one was supposed to be practising.






#4258 04/18/02 11:24 PM
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Nice to hear from you again.

thanks. I keep returning to the same perennial frustration--I need more time in my day!

It's interesting that you lost your ability to focus after 5 days of sleep deprivation.

sorry, I meant that I adjusted after 5 days, then the power kicked in. I lost my focus somewhere around two weeks.

I've been trying to find out more about this uberman's sleep schedule.

I just came back from the library, doing a bit of research. Here's some clarifications:

1. I checked Bucky's system, which called for 6hr intervals--more convenient and I'm sure you can adapt to it, but I don't see that it's based on anything physiological.)

2. We have a 4hr ultradian rhythm in addition to our 24-hour cycle.

3. At 4AM, all people feel their deepest dip in energy and have most propensity for sleep, regardless of sleep debt or sleep times.

Thus, I surmise that 4-hour cycles, beginning at 4AM would be the ideal intervals. So, 4AM, 8AM, Noon, 4PM, 8PM, Midnight.

4. Leonardo slept for 15 minutes at each interval. Bucky slept for 30. 10 minutes is the *absolute minimum* time required for a nap to benefit you. NASA says that 24 minutes is the optimal nap time. Claudio Stampi did a few studies with the 4hr intervals. He tried 15 and 30 min (1.5 hrs sleep vs 3 hrs sleep) and determined that both worked and both are viable. However, he ran the 15 min study for 19 days and the 30 minute study for 49 days. So... combining this with common sense, I'm inclined to say that a nap in the 25 minute range is probably ideal, but variable to person to person.

5. Over time, the time in which it takes you to fall asleep decreases dramatically.

6. Thomas Jefferson actually took a one-day break from this system every few weeks. Claudio Stampi likewise had one of his subjects take a day as ad lib--if he felt tired, he slept. The day after, he was back on the regimen. This seems quite prudent and we would be wise to incorporate it when we feel that we need it.

7. When you finally do get recovery sleep, it usually lasts for a mere 10 hours (!!) And is composed entirely of NREM-IV and REM. Worthy of note is that REM is of four times the concentration, where NREM is only twice.

8. Polyphasic sleep is the preferred method of sleep for most animals. The natural inclination of humans is one long sleep period, with one afternoon nap. However, it is likely that we maintain the programming to engage in polyphasic sleep from our evolutionary past when life was more dangerous and to adapt to severe times of stress and immanent crises.

9. It takes 3 to 9 days to adjust, average being 7 days.

10. In order to fascilitate rhythmic adjustment, Stampi first abstained from shortening the naps. The first round of naps were 80 minutes. The second round was decreased, same with third and fourth and fifth, until after five days, he was down to either 15 or 30 minutes per nap. --makes good sense.

11. Before shortening the naps, however, he first waited two or three days until the subject acclimated to the proper times. Expample: The first day, the subject slept 6 hours, then had one 80 minute nap. Second day, he slept 4 hours and had three 80 minute naps. Third day, it was all 80 minute naps. THEN he began to shorten the times. (my day and time estimates in point 10 and 11 are not exact, but the concept is there.)

12. I read in one place that this can be done up to a year--a vauge statement. Several people have done this for six months without the slightest problem. At this point, I think six months should be absolute max. Though, I wonder if you intersperse "ad lib" rest days once every few weeks, if you can go much longer...

13. Projects, projects, projects!!! You simply must fill your time in constructive, active, complex endeavor. (My first sleep experiment ever, three years ago, saw me resorting to obsessive computer gaming!!) While this would never happen now with my current mindset, the point should be made--have lots of important stuff to do.


All in all, I did not detect any hint of health detriment from Stampi's research. Still and all, we have only legends and testimonals from people who have done this for longer than 49 days. Whereas Stampi was monitoring and citing the physiological and intellectual functioning of people 49 days and under.

... well, that's about it.

Let me know if anyone is game for giving this a go--let's break some ground!






#4259 04/23/02 10:27 PM
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Hello Brian,

With your post, you have incited in me the need to know more on this polyphasic sleep cycle!!! I Should NOT have read your post, I have plenty of things to do as it is!!!

Personally, I've been curious about sleep reduction and lucid dreaming for many years now. I'd like to know your opinion as to the validity of modifying the sleep cycles so as to accomodate a standard 9:00 to 5:00 schedule. Maybe spreading sleep cycles with a longer time period, late night and early morning hours and 1/2 time periods at mid-day and afternoon. See the following:
10:30pm - 12:30pm
4:30am - 5:30am
11:45am - 12:15pm
5:30pm - 6:00pm
After the sleep cycle, include the 10 minute Supercharger paraliminal during the first 7 to 9 days so as to not feel the "hit" so hard.
Maybe, starting out with a total of 5 hours of sleep during a 24 hr period for 7 to 9 days, and bringing it down to 4 hours for the same span of time, then SHORTENING the period I indicate above even further to supply a total of 3 HOURS of sleep per 24 hour period! This is so that you can last longer on this sleep cycle before taking a "break" from it.
I will definitely try Polyphasic Sleep, however, I can't afford the mental "down" time. But I just don't want to wait until my vacation time to try it out. If it doesn't work, well, I'll try some other cycle.
This is why I thought of the cycles above.

Thanks for any and all opinions.


"Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes." - Oscar Wilde









#4260 04/24/02 01:44 AM
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I Should NOT have read your post, I have plenty of things to do as it is!!!

I said this SAME thing to the person who pointed the method out to me! Essentially: "how could you tell me something like this!" heh.

I'd like to know your opinion as to the validity of modifying the sleep cycles so as to accomodate a standard 9:00 to 5:00 schedule.

Is it possible for you to take a 30 minute nap at work and stay 30 minutes longer? I didn't read the other chapters on "quasi-polyphasic" sleep, which is what that would be. So I'm not quite sure, but my intuition is that you'd be able to adjust to about any schedule as long as you stuck to it 110%. But I recommend the book, Why We Nap for any and all answers to this topic. The best and most reliable (perhaps the only) book on polyphasic sleep.

After the sleep cycle, include the 10 minute Supercharger paraliminal during the first 7 to 9 days so as to not feel the "hit" so hard.

What the book, Why We Nap, suggests to ease the transition is to start with larger blocks of nap time. Then, slowly whittle them away to the desired number of minutes over the course of 5 to 7 days.

Maybe ...

Keep in mind that the reason why this works so well is because the distance between naps is so short and aligned on our 4 hr ultradian rhythm. If you prolong the time you are awake to 6 or 8 hours ... you will find yourself struggling without taking a 'hit of REM'.


I will definitely try Polyphasic Sleep, however, I can't afford the mental "down" time.

consider that you can shorten it to 15 minutes instead of 30. Would your telecom work permit a daily scheduled 15 minute nap break?

good luck!






#4261 04/24/02 10:35 PM
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Hi Brian649,
Those are fair and reasonable answers. I'm glad you answered promptly and with care to detail. When I mentioned 'maybe' in my post, I was thinking that we can adjust our bodies to a new self imposed cycle. Any how, I will get the book you mentioned, Why We Nap, to get a good grasp of Polyphasic sleep to give it a try.
By the way, as of today, I am already trying out my Quasi-polyphasic cycles that I explained in my post. I will definitely need to adjust it once I read the aforementioned book. We'll see how it goes.

We will see how IRRITABLE I can get during my sleep adjustments!!






#4262 04/24/02 10:46 PM
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By the way...
Any suggestions on how to document/what to document for my trial run? I'd like to compare this trial run with additional try's in the future. Setting up common points to compare. I may find some info in the book, why we nap, however, any suggestions and comments would be appreciated.

Side note - I MAY be able to adjust my telecom schedule to have 15 min. breaks. It is difficult if I'm assigned to the field and have appointments to keep and you have to cut across town with traffic!! City Life!
Oui Vei!






#4263 04/24/02 10:49 PM
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Is it possible also to use paraliminal tapes, meditating, binaural beats low freq., when trying get this kind of life to work?

Because, I can imagine it will take a lot of struggle to get into this kind of rhythm.

What about REM when you relax into a low freq.? (like I mentioned above). Will it go into conflict with your dayly rhythm of only sleeping every four hour, 15-20 minutes each time? (because many meditating stuff lasts 20 minutes a session, and often you can also fall asleep there!). Or do you have to quit this stuff, when the rhythm is stabil? Hope not .








#4264 04/25/02 12:29 AM
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Good evening all..

Another idea that might be useful in this context is Win Wenger's 'gravity pose' pre-sleep meditation tactic.

I've added an excerpt from his _Beyond_OK_ (highly recommended book splicing ImageStreaming and energy skills) describing just that.

In my experiences using this system, around 10-12 minutes meditating just before sleep chops a good chunk off the time I need - I just wake up an hour or three earlier than usual. Make sure you actually get out of bed then when you try it

I've yet to try it myself with a polyphasic sleep system and it looks promising.

--Michael

PS: Here's the drill.

--------------------------------

Sleep-Need Saver:

An interesting new application of the "gravity position." To meditate
with whatever process for 10-15 minutes, in the "gravity position," just
before going to bed--and then going straight to bed to sleep--appears to
satisfy 2-4 hours of sleep-need each evening that this is done. The
effect appears most pronounced when accompanied by noise-removal
breathing.

The Gravity Position:

Lie flat on the floor, no pillow, hands and arms loosely by your sides.
Comfortably support your feet and lower legs on the seat of a chair,
supported as far up as the backs of the knees.

---------------------

Sleep-Need Saver:

An interesting new application of the "gravity position." To meditate
with whatever process for 10-15 minutes, in the "gravity position," just
before going to bed--and then going straight to bed to sleep--appears to
satisfy 2-4 hours of sleep-need each evening that this is done. The
effect appears most pronounced when accompanied by noise-removal
breathing.

The hypothesis is that the first few hours of sleep are heavily invested
in re-aligning the circulatory system after the day's upright
verticality--and by satisfying that need for circulatory readjustment
and doing so rapidly, meditating in the gravity position satisfies a
large portion of sleep need.

The above hypothesis cannot, however, be the full explanation since the
effect disappears if one does not go to bed immediately afterward. Also,
little if any of the effect appears if the meditation is done without
the "gravity position" or vice-versa.

This phenomena, first observed in June, 1978, is one of many questions
raised during Psychegenic investigations which are much in need of
further research.

The Gravity Position:

Lie flat on the floor, no pillow, hands and arms loosely by your sides.
Comfortably support your feet and lower legs on the seat of a chair,
supported as far up as the backs of the knees.

This gravity-aided brain-circulation-enhancing position we prefer to the
Yoga headstand, not only because it is so much easier to perform, but
because it lets old blood out of the brain while encouraging more new
blood in.

(This gravity-aided position has also become a favorite _general_
meditating position of a fair number of some practitioners of
Psychegenics since its development late in 1975, because it feels so
very refreshing.)

Other Advantages of the Gravity Position:

Although the Savassana Yoga position is supposed to be the ideal
position from standpoint of encouraging best and freest flow of
circulation of blood and energy, this gravity position, like the
Savassana except for the feet-and-legs up, appears to be fully as free.

The gravity position is much easier upon pelvic and lower-back
structures than are either the seated or the flat-on-floor version of
Savassana--excepting pregnant women, kidney disease, and some few
specific forms of back disorder.

Whenever need be, the gravity position can be sustained comfortably for
far longer than any othere meditative position except possibly the full
lotus (and does not present the difficulty which most people experience
in attempting the lotus). Whereas some do experience loss of circulation
in feet or legs while in lotus, this does not occur with the gravity
position.

On really deep problem-solving probes, for example, occasional
Psychegenicists have gone as long as three hours in the gravity
position, without any discomfort.







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