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#4265 04/25/02 03:31 AM
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Any suggestions on how to document/what to document for my trial run?

Sure. Sleep researchers use two standard measurements. The first is the Stanford Sleepiness Scale. You can find it here:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/sss.html

The second is a method of charting your waking times so you can quickly compare how you are doing through different days.
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm
has a chart if you scroll down under "Free Running Sleep". ... "eh"--too complex. The book referenced above contains the proper charting method. I'll try to describe:

Vertical axis is "Day #", Horizontal axis is "Midnight to Midnight" marked hour by hour. And all you do is simply pencil in what hours you sleep. So, if you're sleeping in 5 segments, that's 5 dark pencil marks of the appropriate length. And then the next day, you pencil bars underneath the previous day.

This way, you can really get a feel for your progress; you can see the new sleep pattern forming before your eyes! Plus, you can easily compare to other charts from other studies or tries as this is a standardized system.

...and of course subjective journals are always good.

Win Wenger's 'gravity pose' pre-sleep meditation tactic.

I tend to think the position has less to do with gravity than the fact you are spending some time in theta meditation. Any meditation time is a "sleep-need saver". Note that on a polyphasic schedule, you will find yourself quite ready to hit the sack when your time rolls around. Also consider that a 15 minute meditation prior to sleeping multiplied by 6 is another 90 minutes gone.







#4266 04/25/02 05:02 AM
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ok i admit it i am a seinfeld nut. (embarrased) ok in one episode cramer tries the "divinchi" sleep method. He ends up falling asleep all the time including during things like sex and he ends up in a burlap sac in the river. that colourful metaphor aside when you accomplish this sleep patern do you feel rested, or do you feel like you need sleep? Brian said it makes you "a totally unself-conscious, primal, raw-fueled ultra-genius. " will it really help in for example my life this much?
thanks guys
ps. this is a very interesting thread






#4267 04/25/02 06:29 AM
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I am really enjoying all the input, It'll take me some time to look up some of the information presented not to mention getting a handle on it!
Brian,
Thanks for that Stanford site and the supermemo site. The Stanford Sleepiness scale which has 7 steps from 1 being active and alert and wide awake to 7 , fighting sleep and having dream-like thoughts was excellent descriptions of sleep stages. Up until the writing of this post I'd say I'm at about 5, foggy!!! It is about time for my "nap".
I'll have to look up the other site later on in the early morning hours.
Hey Boylanpower,
I saw that episode with Cramer trying to reduce his sleep time!! Do you remember when Cramer had nothing to do at night so that he had to get Jerry up because "I'm bored out of my mind!" Then Jerry...
Well, anyway, I need some shut eye now, I'm not concentrating well.

Sleep Long and Prosper!!

Hope I didn't embarass you any further Boylan, by including your name in my last rant!







#4268 04/25/02 08:00 AM
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This is now very interesting. Please keep posting, foneguy, and let us know how you do. Thanks.






#4269 04/25/02 10:39 AM
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Hey,
CAUTION:
More sleep can even lead to death!


http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991928









#4270 04/25/02 11:29 PM
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InTheFlow mentioned

Is it possible also to use paraliminal tapes, meditating, binaural beats low freq., when trying get this kind of life to work?

On my first day, I am still using paraliminal tapes like the dream play before sleep cycle at 11:00pm. Also, during the day cycles, I may "sleep" 15-20 minutes, then put on my headphones and put on 10 minute Supercharger. This is only the second day which I HAVE NOT listened to these tapes and it seems that my dreams didn't seem that vivid and right now I feel more groggy, I assume because I went without the use of the 10 minute Supercharger. But like I said, this is only from 1 day to the next I probably am beginning to suffer from lack of NREM and REM sleep. Currently I feel like a 4(on the Stanford Sleep Scale that Brian649 posted) which means "Foggy, losing interest in remaining awake, slowed down". With my 'extra' time I have lined up to use the Natural Brilliance course which I purchased last week and went through it once. I want to go through it again. So I think the paraliminals should not be a problem with this schedule.
Meditation, yes, well, I still meditate, however, today it seems more like an internal argument between my brain that wants to sleep and my mind!!!
Binaural beets? Never tried them. Neither have I tried binaural beats. Wouldn't be able to comment further, for I am an ignorance on this matter.

Brian649,
I've read the page that you linked on your post (http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm)
and it fascinating reading. One thing I gleened from it, which I wanted to apply in modifying my quasi-polyphasic sleep cycle, is this:
"To get high quality night sleep that maximizes your learning effects your sleep onset should meet these two criteria:
strong homeostatic sleepiness: this usually means going to sleep not earlier than 15-19 hours after awakening from the previous night sleep
ascending circadian sleepiness: this means going to sleep at a time of day when you usually experience a rapid increase in drowsiness. Not earlier and not later! Knowing the timing of your circadian rhythm is critical for good night sleep (see below for more hints)
Additionally, you should be aware that using the circadian component will only work when all its physiological subcomponents run in synch (as it is the case in free running sleep). People with irregular sleep hours and highly stressful lives may simply be unable to locate the point of ascending sleepiness as this point may not exist!"

I basically need to find my own cycle between the push and pull of these 2 criterias as well as other physical needs(for example: you gotta eat healthier!!! You gotta exercise!!!). This is so that I can find a rythm that will work for me. Actually "listening"(acutely observing) this rythm that will satify my sleep needs. Not trying to impose this rythm according to my work cycle. It'll take time and detailed charting, I think. I will push on!!!

Can't... go on...
You go on without me...
I can't hold on much longer....

ZZZZZZZZZZZ

;p

Note: As I keep active my degree of sleepiness goes up and down. I need to line up many, many things to keep me occupied!








#4271 04/25/02 11:35 PM
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For Meta,
I did read your post as well and I will let you know if the 'Gravity Position' is a negative or a positive. I will try it for this afternoons' sleep cycle. Thank you for your input!!








#4272 04/29/02 05:21 AM
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I've been on my new sleep cycle for a few days and I have just screwed it up!!
On Saturday, I was working at a construction site from 7:00a to 8:00p and let me tell you, it is real tough to take a nap on a bench in the eating area!!!
I didn't take any naps on saturday, I went through my day with a slight headache and a slightly irritable attitude, although we did complete the project on time. The crew I was working with didn't say much in my attitude because I was controlling my irritable attitude, although I was more snappish than usual.
I slept after getting home eating and taking a shower, 9:30pm, and didn't wake up until 8:00am today. I killed my alarm when it went off. It felt sooo good!
I will re-impose my 'quasi-polyphasic' sleep cycle again today.
I am also going to try new behavior generator paraliminal to get myself to go into sleep cycle EXACTLY when I need.

I have noticed over the course of these days that I am more easily able to just lie down and 'put myself to sleep'. I can actually sleep after I'd say about 2 to 4 minutes and I'll wake up before the alarm, within my 30 minutes cycle. (I have a Compaq iPaq which I have setup with my sleep cycle schedule with an alarm at the end of the cycle)
I thought this would be more difficult to adjust to, but I can now 'fall asleep' when I need.

I have also notice that I am getting much more done! I go through study material easily, read books, and read up on technical notes and updates. Now, I'm just about up to date on the tech updates. Using this with the PRS is GREEEAAT!!
I have not felt 'that' bad during these few days. Some grogginess and sometimes not fully alert, but for the most part, you can get used to the cycle and I am sure you will eventually not have it impact on your mental alertness or attitude.

Eventually, I will see if I can incorporate the 'true' polyphasic sleep cycle that is explained on Brian649s' post.


Hi META,
I tried the 'gravity position' you mentioned a few times, although shortening the time I'm in the position so that I can still have about 20 minutes sleep.
I didn't notice a difference.

Maybe I'm immune to gravity?

I will continue to incorporate these new sleep cycles. Any comments or suggestions would be read with interest.








#4273 04/28/02 07:01 PM
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You all may want to read this:
http://www.dhushara.com/book/upd/millupd/mind/mindw.htm

Scroll down to Time Out

-sidis






#4274 04/30/02 11:41 AM
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I have often said that I never seem to get my Christmas wish... a 48 hour day! Time is the greatest enemy of all and if we only had more of it we might be able to lead more fulfilling lives.

I checked out the website and there was an interesting sidenote. Although he says it's important to convert to a more nutritious diet (I agree) he says that one drawback was food cravings, particularly grape juice which is a simple carbohydrate with a high glycemic index and high sugar content.

What's interesting about this is that it is indicative of an increase in cortisol. High levels of cortisol generate carbohydrate cravings such as mentioned above. Cortisol is responsible for the body entering into a catabolic, muscle-wasting state.

Most of our testosterone production and growth hormone production is generated during sleep. One of growth hormone's responsibilities is retaining and building muscle. When the body produces testosterone, the cortisol levels are diminished. Testosterone is produced by LH the leutenizing hormone. Since LH is produced when we sleep, when we don't sleep enough, LH levels decrease, and testosterone levels are subsequently lower. With t-levels dropping off, and cortisol levels increasing, the body goes into a catabolic state and begins to use muscle for energy. Do you really want to decrease testosterone and growth hormone levels? (I admit that I saw somewhere that getting into a theta state can help with GH levels)

I'm not sure to what degree the levels of REM sleep derived from polyphasic sleep affects T-levels, cortisol, and growth hormone. All the bodybuilding gurus (and this is now high-tech stuff) say that if you're trying to build muscle, you need rest. I realize that most people considering this aren't into bodybuilding, but bodybuilder or not the body produces the same hormones during sleep, and cortisol is the enemy of muscle tissue. Consider too that every pound of muscle burns 50 calories a day for you. Lose 5 lbs of muscle and you will need to reduce caloric intake by 250 calories/day if you don't want to see an increase in your waistline.

One suggestion to help reduce cortisol levels is to make sure to get enough protein (1-1/2 grams per pound of lean body weight) , try to stay away from high glycemic foods, (the zone diet may be the ticket here as it keeps insulin levels stable) make sure to get plenty of vitamin C (1000 mg/day) and possibly supplement between meals with a good glutamine supplement so the body doesn't catabolize itself to get needed glutamine. Note however that by ensuring enough protein, you likely will not need glutamine supplementation.







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