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#463 07/07/03 07:54 PM
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Perhaps we can interject a bit of controversy into an otherwise dull topic.

All these arts of divination, like numerology, vedic astrology, runes, i-ching, etc., when done correctly and interpreted correctly have validity. That they have validity is due to the notion that free will does not exist.

The characters that make up a name, the position of the planets, do not in themselves, cause events to happen. There are no coincidences and these seemingly unrelated events are associated together, not through causality, but synchronicity.

We only have the illusion of free will. Or if we really do have free will, it's actually quite irrelevant.

In all the dimensions that make up the physical, astral, and causal planes, (all of this constitutes Maya or the Matrix) we think we are responsible for our actions. ("You've already made the choice, you only need to understand why you made the choice." - but is that really choice???)

The illuison of free will is what drives karma which in turn drives Maya. At the highest level (Pure Consciousness) from which energy emanates as Maya, there is no free will. Everything has been predetermined and we're all acting out scripts on the universal stage. Maya is a dream (or computer simulation) of Brahman, the One who created all this.

The whole rationale for karma is to provide lessons for learning experiences. The true self, or Atman, is here to experience the many variations of karmic game-playing in order to learn. These roles that we assume in each lifetime tend to be scripted affairs. Randomness just would not do since it is a waste of time to re-experience a karmic lesson that's already been learned.

The key to becoming liberated from karma is to realize the futility of free will. There is no do-er. For example, you can't hate someone because of what they did to you. They were just trying to learn the lesson or set themselves up for a future one. The Atman is just tagging along for the ride as an objective observer. You become liberated from Maya (and the samsara of endless rebirths) when you realize there is nothing more for you to learn. But then that's all been predetermined anyway.

Admittedly though, most people enjoy playing the Maya game and don't want to leave it just yet. So you see, spiritual growth is just the accumulation of game points. The name of the game is to become liberated and become a siddha like - Super Sayan or Neo!!!

Do we gamers like it when we see the words:

GAME OVER

or do we play more rounds like the addicts that we are.

shr33m







#464 07/08/03 07:36 PM
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To clarify, you claim that karma derives from the lack of free will in "maya", and that to escape from maya we pass from lack of free will, into not having free will, and in both stages we act from a deterministic "script". The only difference than is that in one state we think we have, or CAN have, free will, and in the other we don't. To obfuscate matters still further you claim that we "are here for the purpose of learning". But then you say that it is Brahmin, the ultimate, from whence maya, as manifestation, proceeds, who is doing the learning. You sort of have this immanent dualism in our nature going here. How you equate this with the notion of free will-- for you the opinion of the lack thereof- does not seem clear to me. Nor does the reason why you brought any of that up in the first place.

I take it upon myself to say that free will does exist, it can exist. Most people do not possess it however- it is a matter of experience. It can be cultivated, and the only sort of free will worth consideration- not the metaphysically based, transcendent "soul" type of free agency-- follows upon an examination and an entering into, and a subsequent development of the nature of thinking. Using mindfulness and attention to our unconscious we can become aware of the psychic forces impelling us into our patterns of consciousness. And by bringing them into consciousness we can work upon them and shape them, and their consequent actions, on the basis of our Ideals- if I may so speak. Slowly, but surely, our consciousness and actions will change as a result, in the full light of consciousness and reason. You can either experience this or ignore it, even ignore the possibility of it. But for those who do experience this, it results in the sort of freedom I'm talking about. In fact, 'free will' MEANS NOTHING apart from experience. Getting trapped in metaphysical logics surrounding 'free will' is what has hampered its development in most people. In truth, their is no way to argue against this-- either you experience it or you don't; that is the whole of which one can argue about. No amount of discursive rambling, nor the manipulations of logicians can deny the barest facts of experience. This is the ground from which all thinking must proceed if it is to lay claim to any sort of knowledge-of-phenomena.

Now, as an example of 'free will' at work: why did I write this? I wrote this primarily as an example of the sort of path which relates to my above commentary on approachin genius. My own "progress" on this path is still only the beginning- but also, the end-in-itself as long as we're thinking purposively and categorically- and developing my thoughts thorugh writing, in response to the wide panorama of divergent views, helps to bind together my thinking as a greater and greater referent of my experience, and my experience-of-thinking. Psychologically, I would presume that it also satifies a desire for expression- and my choosing of this form for that, in full consciousness, is entirely appropriate. Finally, I think that it benefits everyone to read words which point them towards an experience of themselves. I feel that this discursive method, while inadequate and easily deceptive, is the only medium which can adequately speak to a secular, 'Western' audience. If we were in a Zen Monastery I would not feel this need at all. If I were speaking to poets I'd speak in poetry. To engineers, I might even draw them a diagram...but the medium 'is not' the experience. Remember this and be well,
KO









#465 07/08/03 08:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kristoff Olafsson:
I take it upon myself to say that free will does exist, it can exist. Most people do not possess it however- it is a matter of experience. It can be cultivated, and the only sort of free will worth consideration- not the metaphysically based, transcendent "soul" type of free agency-- follows upon an examination and an entering into, and a subsequent development of the nature of thinking. Using mindfulness and attention to our unconscious we can become aware of the psychic forces impelling us into our patterns of consciousness. And by bringing them into consciousness we can work upon them and shape them, and their consequent actions, on the basis of our Ideals- if I may so speak. Slowly, but surely, our consciousness and actions will change as a result, in the full light of consciousness and reason. You can either experience this or ignore it, even ignore the possibility of it. But for those who do experience this, it results in the sort of freedom I'm talking about. In fact, 'free will' MEANS NOTHING apart from experience. Getting trapped in metaphysical logics surrounding 'free will' is what has hampered its development in most people. In truth, their is no way to argue against this-- either you experience it or you don't; that is the whole of which one can argue about. No amount of discursive rambling, nor the manipulations of logicians can deny the barest facts of experience. This is the ground from which all thinking must proceed if it is to lay claim to any sort of knowledge-of-phenomena.

Now, as an example of 'free will' at work: why did I write this? I wrote this primarily as an example of the sort of path which relates to my above commentary on approachin genius. My own "progress" on this path is still only the beginning- but also, the end-in-itself as long as we're thinking purposively and categorically- and developing my thoughts thorugh writing, in response to the wide panorama of divergent views, helps to bind together my thinking as a greater and greater referent of my experience, and my experience-of-thinking. Psychologically, I would presume that it also satifies a desire for expression- and my choosing of this form for that, in full consciousness, is entirely appropriate. Finally, I think that it benefits everyone to read words which point them towards an experience of themselves. I feel that this discursive method, while inadequate and easily deceptive, is the only medium which can adequately speak to a secular, 'Western' audience. If we were in a Zen Monastery I would not feel this need at all. If I were speaking to poets I'd speak in poetry. To engineers, I might even draw them a diagram...but the medium 'is not' the experience. Remember this and be well,
KO


Hmmmm.... I would describe this as "linguistic complexity masquerading as intellectual insight."


You really shed no light whatsoever on the question of free will. So you are saying that there are people who don't have any free will whatsoever, whose actions are completely deterministic? Show me these people! Right now!!

And the process you describe for cultivating free will, is just a prescription for "mindfulness" which has been re-hashed in thousands of different forms, by lots of different people, including on this website. There's nothing new or insightful there.

I like how you say "I presume it satisfies a desire for expression..."
You sound kind of out of touch with yourself...

A better philosophical point to think about: who is it, exactly, that has free will anyway? That's the crux of it. How are you defining this "I". You presume an "I" in relation to "thought", and never bother to define what that is or what you are talking about. What are you talking about?


Just trying to help you become a genius,

Garic








#466 07/09/03 12:31 AM
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People are trying to become a geniuses are they? Hmmmm

Advice:

Fake it until you make it. Naaa doesn't sound right.
A long journey that starts with small steps and eventually brings you to yourself. Naaaa, not really advice. That sounds more like insight.

When you still yourself you will hear the answer. Nope that's still insight.

Believe in yourself, and get out of your way. Yeah, now that's my advice.

Iam2






#467 07/09/03 05:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Iam2:

Believe in yourself, and get out of your way. Yeah, now that's my advice.

Iam2


Dude, no, that's like...Paul's advice. Remember? Like...all that stuff in say...NATURAL BRILLIANCE that he talks about...?






#468 07/09/03 02:59 PM
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I never claimed to be the originator of any of those ideas. It's cool if that's what's in the NB book / course. I still haven't activated the NB book, but I think I used it while practicing the PR step. However, that advice must be in the PR material and is definitely on the PR forum, and it follows naturally from NLP and reducing negative internal talk.

OOOOPs. I did, I did say "my advice".

Or maybe I should say Whoa me and Paul think the same way.

Or maybe I just exhibited my own psychic ability to tap into the universal (or just Paul's) wisdom.


Keep knowing, growing and going.
Iam2







#469 08/14/03 11:08 AM
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More reviews on the course... come on... it's so good yet only one person really gives a positiver review...


I want to buy the genius code, but I not shure yet


To tell you the truth it would make me more angry to waste my time and commit myself to the course than acctually pay for it. Hate puttin trust and time in something to have it not reek any benefits.


The problem with the material LSC has to offer is that the effectivity is very subjective and difficult to measure, which at the pices charged for some people presents a problem.


any more reviews??






#470 08/14/03 11:20 AM
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On another topic...


Why does LSC not offer the deluxe version of the course that other web pages offer?






#471 08/20/03 02:35 PM
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The deluxe version offered by other sites is not something we publish, although Learning Strategies has given them permission to offer it.






#472 08/31/03 10:30 AM
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Dantian,

I know this is a cliche, but you will get out of the Genius Code what you put into it.

You can certainly reap benefits from reading the Einstein Factor and doing the exercises in there.

Essentially, what you are doing is free-associating and describing aloud your internal experience. This activity, I think, strengthens interconnectivity between the normal, cognitive linguistic self and the sort of free-wheeling, visual, dream-self. You will develop skills, certainly, from practicing this. How you use it and how creative you can be with it is up to you.

I have not continued using it, but that is just me. I think that many people can find it very, very useful and rewarding. I don't think it'll be a waste of your time. If anything, it's a very interesting course.

Stephen







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