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#47066 05/06/06 05:51 AM
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Hi Walrus,

You're making a list of assumptions about me and photoreading, and I recommend that you do not do that. A long response doesn't necessarily mean I'm defending it. The response looks 'long' because i included your quotations. Additionally, I'm partly wanting to know what you're asking, while at the same time clarifying based on what I know. I'm no expert in photoreading. There's still a ton about Photoreading that I don't know about and so I'm still testing out this stuff. In particular, I have yet to come across things like spontaneous activation.

What specifically do you mean by worthless? How can even the least bit of anecdotal evidence be considered worthless? And what do you mean by sad examples??

It's clear to me that Paul hasn't abandoned photoreading. He's incorporated some of the other stuff into it (i.e. some qigong related techniques for mental preparation) and techniques like direct learning were applied to photoreading.

At the very least, I know that Dr. J Michael Bennett contributed to the photoreading program with the skittering technique.

As for studies, I don't know of any.

I may be wrong, but I really get the impression that no matter what evidence is shown to you, it won't really mean much, or that you'll be quick to think it's worthless.

I'd be really interested to see some serious investigation as well, but I'm not sure your definition of it is the same as mine.

-Jason


#47067 05/05/06 06:07 PM
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OK, you guys have got me curious so I checked up past threads and found this:
http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004839.html

As for SQ3R, I was an expert at that my
younger years and was a straight A student at a leading prestigious University and Graduate School, during the glorius but turbulent 1960s.

Some people on this post know my history. I became anti-academic and gave up on books in the 1980s.

I had to take a recert exam in my profession in 2003, that required all old knowledge and new knowledge in my field. SQ3R did not work and i was failing, until I gave PR a try. Without PR, I would be out of my preferred field of work right now!

Healthy dialogue about this is good. It forced me to research and find this thread :
http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004839.html

as Paul, Alex, and Pete must be busy with a workshop right now. By and by, I am not a LSC employee. I just know this PR system saved my career and has enhanced my life and I just want to spread the word.


#47068 05/05/06 06:28 PM
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Here's an interesting document:
http://ilabs.inquiry.uiuc.edu/ilab/chip/documents/882/home/publications/dublinbook-final.pdf

It's not by LSC, it's published by the UN ICT task force and chapter 2 of section two is about learning how to learn by Mike Griffin. It mentions photoreading, and even mentions how Pete Bissonette recorded 'hundreds of radio and tv shows'.

The only thing is, does anyone know which ones and where they are?

-Jason


#47069 05/05/06 06:52 PM
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comon man, why dig up the old stuff?

#47070 05/05/06 06:56 PM
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Just found out:

Paul says in his 'Genius Mind' video that he learned it from Ron Davis's Gift of Dyslexia.

Additionally, check this out:
http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum8/HTML/002603.html

Also in the video, he says purpose of making it orange is because orange is an easy color to remember.

Now I wonder where Ron developed that technique...

-Jason


#47071 05/05/06 08:24 PM
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Hi ChuaKoonMing
I remember when you had started photoreading and I learned the importance of activating in layers, from Alex's response to you.

I guess that is why we dig up the old stuff again and again.

ChuaKoonMing
Member posted May 05, 2006 01:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
comon man, why dig up the old stuff?

It is good that the " old stuff " was
brought up and questioned, which is what ignited this thread ( where did Paul get the tangerine technique?, did John Grinder really endorse PR?). JasonC and I must have been on the same page, as we dug up the "old stuff" to get the answers.

I actually PRed this thread earlier today and my responses are my way of activating in layers. We have learned much here today about the tangerine technique and John Grinder's involvement with LSC.

It is great that you, Walrus, and Publius
question the system and the process like this as it promotes critical thinking.
Seriously, after reading this entire thread, I feel digging up the old stuff is the key to problem solving. I can't speak for JasonC, but it seems like he is as ardent about PR's effectiveness as I am. This system works so well for me, that I knew the answers had to be out there somewhere and that PR is no hoax!


#47072 05/05/06 11:32 PM
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Talking about studies done outside of LearningStrategies, what do you guys think of:
http://www.cosphere.com/PR/PhotoReading_Analysis.pdf

This was an independent study by a PR participant who took the self study, the seminar and a personal coach and then compared results with a PR expert.

According to this study, PR gives a false sense of comprehension that is evident when you are tested in detail on the atter you read.

Any thoughts ?


#47073 05/06/06 03:08 AM
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Nice debate guys I'm willing to sit back and let it continue.

john Grinder
John Grinder did in fact endorse the manuscript for the original book in 1992.. I note the discussion on that forum never went further after Mr Grinder received a copy.

It must be remembered that he sees many manuscripts with requests for endorsement. And many things in his life have transpired since that time. So not remembering PhotoReading after just having read about it is not a crime.

The book has been updated and is in it's third edition. The third edition introduced Direct Learning. Skittering and Rhythmic perusal were introduced thanks to Dr J Michael Bennett.

Independent studies have been done but not been published for one reason or another much to Learning Strategies disappointment. We have enough of our own studies.

There is also a lot of interesting studies that put some light on the brain processes of PhotoReading.

While the "Vicary" experiment has been bunked, advertisers have successfully used the subliminal process. There research published this year highlighting successful influence. Of course the word "rat" appearing in Bush campaign may have had little influence over who won the won. It did outrage the people who manage to see it there. CNN still had the video and story about it if you want to track it down.

Tangerine Technique

The history of the thinking cap. In the thirteenth century Franciscan theologian and philosopher John Duns Scotus designed a conical hat he believed increased learning potential. The hat ultimately came to be called the Dunce Cap and connected with someone unable to learn.

Ron Davis was a Dyslexic who wanted to know what proficient readers did that dyslexics didn't. He discovered that proficient readers had a fixed point of attention at the top back part of their head. The tangerine was an incidental creation by Pete Bissonette when explaining the fixed point of attention. PET scans of Dyslexic and proficient readers confirm Ron Davis conclusion.

The " NASA "report
Isn't it interesting that NASA is never mentioned in the report other than in the file name? Nor do the copies making rounds offer the name of the trainee come researcher and PhotoReading instructor? Yes, the trainee and the researcher are one and the same. Unfortunately we don't know who the PhotoReading instructor in the report was Paul has asked. It's a little pointless comparing research results when the instructor refused to participate. The one person was trainee, time keeper and researcher. That experiment is conducted with everyone who explores PhotoReading. your beliefs do say whether you succeed of not at anything. You might want to recreate the graphs in that report

The consistency in results for the PhotoReading instructor (who apparently wasn't an academic and would have found the material more challenging than the researcher who had assistance in creating that report.) Once you know how to PhotoRead you don't exactly "traditionally" read anymore, you fall into the pattern of PhotoReading whether you want to or not. I found this to be the case within one year of learning PhotoReading.

The report was never made available to Paul Scheele for comment.

Why only one moderator? One is enough, don't you think?

Paul would love to see independent research on PhotoReading. Using proper brain scans . If someone can come up with a research method that separates the human scientifically enough from the process. That is remove a persons belief and enthusiasm from the process. Since even with the same demographics same teacher and same environment students don't all pass the same test. The results are always a Bell curve when you grade the students on an exam.

50% of the US population cannot even read instructions on a prescription bottles. Yes many college students are not making the grade with basic reading skills for reading comprehension. I am not surprised that they find PhotoReading difficult they missed out on learning the basic reading skill that they should be able to learn before the age of 14. Because by the age of 14 a student will have learned 80% of their reading vocabulary.

PhotoReading is not Speed Reading. Yes you cannot be reading if you are going at speeds greater than 800 words a minute. That's why there have been no more entries into the Guineas Book of record.

When you PhotoRead at 25,000 or more words a minute you are not conscious of the information you've taken in. Anyone who has experienced spontaneous activation or Direct learning will tell you that it's not the same as reading. It's acquiring knowledge and using it with understanding.

Amatory , just so you know. That file includes is the so called NASA report. You don't recognise it because the file name has been removed. I have received a number of copies with selective inclusions and exclusions. Lacking in all is the name of the author.

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K. Viefhaus (edited May 09, 2006).]


#47074 05/09/06 07:07 PM
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Thank you Alex.
I knew the truth was out there somewhere! It is good people question these things, though. With PR, as I learned in the Natural Brilliance Textbook and all the CDs my Anthony Robbins coach lets me borrow from Paul's seminars, is that it is one's attitude and confidence that really creates the accelerated learning stage. It is hard to find empirical research on that, and sometimes all we can do is trust our own instincts that a system is working well for us.

I will reiterate, I was an expert at SQ3R in my younger years and consistently made top grade in my Physics, Organic Chemistry, Calculus, and other pre-med courses, while a student at Northwestern University in the late 1960s. I also scored perfect on my Math SAT and near perfect on my Verbal SAT.
I went on and scored near perfect on the MCATs and made Honors Grades in Medical School. It was the hippy days and I was disenfranchised with the emphasis on surgery and drugs. I dropped out of med school and became the world's greatest anti-intellect! I went into social work and did well, as that was a human relations field and emphasized right brain functioning. I despised left brained precision and was probably burned out.

PR helped bring it all back, as my mind was dead to SQ3R as Dr. Greene now promotes it in his books. I always prefer PR, as it is faster, but now occassionally I do traditional reading word by word, -- the boring way.


Publius #47075 05/19/06 10:26 PM
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to raleigh199
as you are practicing photoreading, please guide the users to success.
give the a to z plan you realiZed
Thnx in advance.

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