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#51419 10/29/04 05:05 AM
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This sounds like a meditation related issue, and there I have some experience.

Did you ever consider your consciousness of the monkey chatter as a form of real progress? Many people do not even realize that this stuff is going on inside of them. Once you become conscious of it, you become conscious of a source of suffering that's been there the whole time, running along with you unawares.

And here is something you may not have known: experiencing stillness is no small feat. That is the big one that people meditate a very long time trying to accomplish.

Your desire for results is probably creating a great amount of the energy that is fueling the monkey chatter. That is, the desire to have progress is stirring up the monkeys.

Here is where paradox occurs. Your desire and efforts for progress are the very things that keep you from progress. The answer is counter-intuitive. Stop trying to progress. Let go of your need for the stillness. When you let go and stop caring so much, it'll come to you.

Try this:

Take a completely passive approach. Instead of trying to make progress, simply observe with no real goals except to be mindful of what is happening. Allow your thoughts and feelings to come and go.

It's like the sky. Imagine that stillness is always there, like the blue of the sky is always there. You are in the universe and the universe is in you. This is a fact. I mean, you're made of stardust for Pete's sake. Intend for the universe and you to merge together. Just intend. There doesn't have to be an orgasmic fanfare of enlightenment.

Your thoughts and feelings (monkey chatter) are like the clouds in the sky. They come, they go. Hey, that one looks like a dragon eating a snow cone. Weird. Let it pass. Sooner or later, the sky will clear and you'll think, "Hey! I'm not thinking any thoughts!" Whoops. There's a cloud (the thought that you're not thinking any thoughts). That's ok. The sky is for clouds as much as it is for blue. So, just let it go.

You'll notice that once you start a-thinkin' after stillness, there's a bunch of other thoughts, too. Don't lust for progress. Well, if you do, just observe that. Another cloud. Just let go and observe. Stillness will come again.

This struggle you've shared with us sounds to me like the crux of your problems. Once you relax and let go of your attachments, your back pain might mysteriously subside for no apparent reason.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 28, 2004).]


#51420 10/29/04 06:15 AM
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Hi,
It's great that so many people are trying to help here.
As you post Tjapukai, your practice and experience get clearer.
It seems from your last post, that your feelings about the success, or point to your practice, your perceived inability to get into the emptiness, and your busy mind, are higher on the list than the back discomfort. Perhaps that, being frosting on the cake!
May I suggest another approach, within the realm of SFQ practice.
-'Starting over' from the beginning. There is you, and there is SFQ. The practice brings benefits. This is a fact. They may be slow coming or fast, cyclic, bring great changes, bring plateaus, etc.. Inherently, it is good. So , don't place a negative message in the practice.
- SFQ is message healing, or signal healing. This goes beyond physical healing applications. The message is what you charge something with. It sets manifestation in motion. It manifests, quickly, with confidence and a focused intention. Put a positive message back in your practice.
-Engage with SFQ in a way that allows you to 'enjoy' and 'relax'. More like nap time, or a warm bath. A time of rejuvenation. A positive break. Comfortable.
-Now, to get your experience in this mode, change your position if necessary, and the time. Build it up, slowly. Start with 10 minutes. Maybe laying down, doing small universe. You are just going to lay down, relax, and focus your mind on this one exercise for ten minutes. No pressure, no long session. A time to relax. Find a position(laying or sitting) that you are comfortable in. Really comfortable. Allow yourself to really relax. Set a doable goal, like ten minutes of small universe, comfortable position, "focused mind". (smile too!)
I wouldn't look at mind activity as negative in any way. Don't react to your mind's activity. Strike a healthy working relationship. Engage with the master's energy to help you initiate and/or define this. It is good, to give the mind a rest. I find the mind receptive to this. I also find it receptive to exercising focus. It doesn't have to be perfect. You work together, to slowly build something. Some relaxation, and an exercise in focus, for a brief time. Set a doable goal. It can be minutes, regarding the mind. I would prepare and focus, the day before. Start with the message. " I am going to lay down and relax tomorrow, and do small universe for ten minutes. I will focus my mind on the exercise. I will relax deeper than I ever have, and start my practice on the right foot. I will build on this each week." Something like that. Again, ask your master's energy for help with this message. It can , of course , be briefer or differ from this. I just want to give you an idea. Focus it towards the next day. Stay aware of the goal, set the stage, keep the agreement. Be positive during this time. This is part of the work/focus. Afterwards, reflect on how you did, if you relaxed, did you have some moments of your mind just focusing on the exercise, etc. Were you comfortable...

I hope you give this a try. Short , and sweet, and building on that.
Your practice is not in a good place, where it is at. Earlier guidance to push longer, would still be a valid answer, but there are many, many other choices too. Quality, is much more important than quantity. This should be a positive experience for you. Experiencing relaxation at deeper levels will help you with the emptiness part. There is 'no' hurry to achieve this. No pressure. No failure. The fact that you practice, is the bottom line good thing. You are making the effort to improve. This is the immediate, and important, success. You are doing the work. How fast or how high is secondary, to this great intention. This intention is postive, and is healing energy that effects the whole. Working the physical part of the exercise , sometimes keeps you in that. That is okay too. With the right attitude and redefining your practice, you can make this work for you. There isn't a right way, or a wrong way. Within the practice, there is good , better, and best. Best, can mean, what is best for you , to allow you to start this out on the right foot, and begin to gain from the practice.
If you want to, you can consciously release thoughts you have or had. Look at it all as energy. If a thought doesn't support you, isn't good for you, send it back to the universe as extra energy you don't need. There may seem to be an endless stream of thought, but it isn't. Again, don't react, just release. Or, if focusing the mind, just do that, with no other thoughts. If one comes, simply go back to the focus, again, without reaction.
love,
gallen


#51421 10/29/04 09:54 AM
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I hesitate to add after gallen's positive instruction, but...

Two phrases I've used Before doing meditation are:
"I give myself permission to use this time only for my meditation. I choose to use this time for my meditation".

"I choose to experience the meditation fully and completely, and leave all analysis and reflection of the experience until after I have completed my meditation".

I just use these statements as intentions I'm communicating to myself. They are not rules that have to be followed.

Remember to honestly smile, and to smile at yourself should you notice your practice is not what "you think" it should be. Because is it perfect the way it is, right now. It may be different later, and it will be perfect then too. It is always exactly what you need for you purpose. Express gratitude at the conclusion of your meditation for your experience and your guidance.


You are perfection.
Iam2


#51422 10/29/04 01:49 PM
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Hi Iam2,
Thanks for reinforcing the message part! This is a 'core' part of SFQ. It is seemingly simple, and perhaps overlooked a bit.
From this last retreat, I set some goals. They were physically challenging for me. I found that by putting the message out, and, holding that focus for the whole day, enabled me to accomplish my goals. As they were challenging for me, I found that if I was half assed about it (excuse my English), I couldn't accomplish it. The days I woke up, with my intention and focus, placed the day before, I made my goals. If I picked up the possibility, more casually , during the day, I came up short. This is all relative to what I was trying to do, and me working with me. Certainly, the message can be, immediate, and at the moment. I set some high goals that required a held focus with nothing other than that focus. I blanked my mind, and didn't let it take me anywhere else. This blanking, took place over days prior to the retreat. Constantly releasing unproductive or negative thoughts, and focusing more and more on a time period for transformational work.
I don't like to define someone else's message for them, so thank you again, for sharing yours. You are really good at keeping the basics to the forefront. Emphasizing the smile too, which is paramount, in really letting go and relaxing, allowing joy to fill oneself, and all the self-healing that comes within that state of being.
love,
gallen

#51423 10/30/04 05:27 AM
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its good to do sfqg two hours a day if you don't have anything else to do, some people have jobs and other commitments

#51424 10/29/04 06:01 PM
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jm, I hear ya. I'm there too. I wish I had more time. My practice is up and down. Sometimes getting out of bed early doesn't have much appeal... and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I only do 10 or 15 minutes in the morning. Sometimes is just the small universe in a kneeling position because I'm having a hard time getting going. Every bit helps, and I remind myself this is exactly the experience I need.

It's all a matter of choices. I know I can go with less sleep when I'm doing more meditations, and it's hard to do the less sleep first. It's better to do the more meditation first. I can skip a coffee break and do 15 to 20 minutes here and there. Do a half our at lunch.

My best experiences have been when I make a regular daily practice. It's better still with the more time I spend. My personal best regular practice, so far, has been 1/2 - 1 hour in the morning, 1/2 at lunch and 1/2 - 1 hour in the evening.

I have done longer meditations but not regularly. Perhaps sometime soon, I choose to do a daily meditation of 2 or so hours and see what happens.

I seldom get a two hour meditation in. I try and do one every two weeks. I follow the lunar cycle, picking a evening close to the new and full moons.

Nice discuss, but I hope Tjapukai is getting what he needs when he started this thread.


You are perfection.
Iam2


#51425 10/30/04 01:20 AM
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When I had back pains from practise doing Small Universe Meditation , Only, cleared this up for me. There is a Ratio that Chunyi gives for Small Universe and Qigong exercise,the Small Universe is used more than the exercise.

Or call for someone to heal you.

Jeff


#51426 11/01/04 07:36 PM
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Aloha jm,

Throughout the 6-day retreat, Chunyi expressed time and time again that Spring Forest Qigong isn't just something to do for 20 minutes, an hour. It is something that one implements into everything they do.

Notice in the manual when he talks about walking and sleeping. Where in your daily schedule you can implement just the concepts presented there.

He likes to remind people about taking time during the day to do the neck exercises found in the Harvesting of Chi or just taking a couple seconds to smile and do the breathing. Living in with Love, kindness and forgiveness is also healing. Master Lin is always emphasizing the healing that happens from doing good things daily for others. Not only is it a positive expression of our selves and energy, but it gets us out of stewing in our own stuff!

Go into the emptiness
Use your Consciousness
Keep it simple


Much Love, Shawn

[This message has been edited by Shawn_Grim (edited November 02, 2004).]


#51427 11/10/04 11:39 AM
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to this is not working:
i read your message and immediately felt great compassion for you. you practiced qigong for months and felt no relief and so gradually you lose hope.
about 3 and a half years ago i too bought the program and started practicing the active excercises (sp?) and the small universe meditation. after 8 months nothing happened . i have spinal stenosis plus severe arthritis in both knees and hips plus i have parkinson's disease. as a result i am unable to walk without a walker and even with that i can only walk about 25 - 50 feet at best. i am house bound unless someone takes me out in a wheelchair.
so after 8 months of calling learning strategies (what am i doing wrong) and with no clear answers i gave up. i should mention that i was doing a program called "centerpoint" at the same time and i did TM (transcendental meditation.) my life was one of hurrying from qigong to centerpoint to tm day in and day out. I was wound so tight with scheduling these activities that i couldn't let any healing in even if it clamored at my door. then i gave everything up. the hell with it all i said. i played tape programs and music and read and i relaxed and got used to my pain which was so severe that i would fall many times. but i got used to it nonetheless. so was my retirement - not as i had pictured it but we do adjust to difficult things. i never put the qigong program on the shelf though - i kept it on the corner of my desk even though i did't look into it again for another 2 plus years. then i got the "invitation" togo to the qigong retreat. my heart jumpedand said GO. after many phone calls i signed up for it. then having paid my tuition and made all the necessary arrangements, i opened the program and reread the booklet that was in it. let me say that i read this book when i first bought the program as i do whenever there is a book of instructions enclosed. as i read (that which i had already read) i was amazed that it told me things that never registered with me the first time. like - the pain may get worse before it gets better . i listened to the tapes again and heard chunyi lin say the same thing and to hang in - not give up - that healing will come when your body and mind are readdy for it.
in the 3 months between signing up for the retreat and going to it, i did much soul searching about my illness and pain. from sonewhere in the universe came love and blanketed my life. i started to honor my body and the pain. i thanked it for knocking at the door of my consciousness to tell me that i hadn't done a good job in my youth, putting work and responsibilities before me (the inner me) i never did anything slow because if i worked fast i could get 2x as much done. i relaxed in all that i did (in a sense i had to because parkinson's slows one down. but it was also that i deliberately relaxed as i did the qigong excersizes. i do them with love in my heart and when chunyi lin says "put a smile on your face" mine is genuine not contrived as it once was.
SO can you take anything from my story that can help you??? i sense that you need love and so i send you love. let it blanket you and warm you and fill you with joy. relax relax relax!!! take 2 weeks off from doing qigong and when you are filled with joy go back to it with a new outlook. reread the booklet and relisten to the tapes. you may see and hear something new. pperhaps when chunyi lin says "put a smile on your face''
perhaps yours will be genuine also.
i know my story is long. i didn't want to leave out anything that might insprie you to continue doing qigong but with a new attitude. good luck and God bless you
love and light
marrisha
(this name means little mary which i was called as a child)

#51428 11/10/04 02:51 PM
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A very uplifting story, Marrisha. Thanks so much for sharing it with us.

Love

Kev


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