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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327
Hi Jeff,

Thanks - and no problem ... I enjoy open discussion, too, but sometimes,
it begins to feel like the "movement-for-movement's-sake" which you
previously cautioned was wasteful.

Regarding your questions ...

> how do I , without a doubt, know it's any more real than an idea I have?

Perhaps an example will help. I remember you mentioning you have a
daughter, so let's pretend one day, she climbs on top of the roof of your
house with a cape draped over her shoulders. "I am Super-Girl!" she
exclaims, "And I can fly!"

OK ... what do you do as a father? Do you say, "Sweetie, you're
absolutely right! Even though my perceptions tell me you'll break your
neck if you jump off the roof, well, we both know that perceptions are
limiting, and that we can have more power in ideas. So, yes ... leap off
and fly, my dear, and prove once and for all that scientists have blinded
themselves with their limited view of reality!"

Now, as much as you come across as a true believer in human potential, I
highly doubt you would encourage your daughter to jump.

I'm not trying to say that we should not hope and dream extraordinary,
even super-natural things. All I'm saying is that there has to be
common-sense, REALISTIC limits. Granted, it is true that most people
don't live up to their potentials, because of self-limiting beliefs, and
I'm all for helping them overcome their limitations and succeeding in
their goals and dreams.

But we have to draw the line when someone takes this to an irrational
extreme and begins to suggest that we can summarily ignore all "natural
laws" just because they're a product of our perceptions and don't
represent anything fundamentally "real." Encouraging someone along that
route would be as irresponsible and hurtful as if you encouraged your
daughter to jump off your roof.

We need a balance: if you want to fly (based on super-natural desires),
then build a pair of wings (and conform to natural laws).

Limiting beliefs can hold back many from reaching their full potential.
But unrealistic beliefs don't serve them any better, and indeed, can even
result in broken necks.



Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 481

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 481
Hi HF;

You bring up a good point, my shortcut interpretation is that the realm of ideas has no set rules and the perceptible universe does.

If my Daughter did try such a stunt and I did not have the confidence in her ability to do such a thing I would drag her from the roof. Although I would not deny her this experience.

We would both get it figured out by using a kite, air bag or whatever and Supergirl would fly from the roof at some point in a safe and sane manner. Cape optional.

This goes with my belief that you can accomplish anything and that overcoming ignorance and fear are very worthwhile objectives in ones life. That would be the lesson I would want my daughter to learn and developing the confidence that it can be done.

Sometimes it is gaining the knowledge but most times it is doing the grunt work to see it through to a successful completion. This is just plain discipline and not letting yourself develope a bad habit by letting yourself fail if at all possible.

There is the ol "crash and burn" risk when you pursue anything although we learn from our mistakes and like a Phoenix arise from the ashes to play again. I do advise my Daughter's that I have pretty much done everything wrong at some point in my life and that if they would like to know, I can probably save them alot of time in the crash and burn department and even show them the most efficient way to get what they want.

I also belief that as you gain experiencial knowledge the Universe of the Mind/Spirit and the Rules of the Physical Universe will become One. They are not seperate. It is only ones level of awareness that makes it so.



Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 795

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 795

Hehehe, you're welcome.

It hit me like a "EUREKA!" moment when I realized it. It felt really good, like I had a new toy. A new set of thoughts to work with and reinterpret my world by.

I think that when we bother ourselves with our thinking we do it by way of some kind of internal shell game. Which shell is the pea under? Here? There? Thing is, the pea is under every shell. It's just that we fool ourselves into thinking it isn't and thus give away our agency.

"It's not what I think... it's what THEY think... inside my head... as I imagine it... ummm... Oh, yeah, I guess I *am* thinking that, huh?"

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