Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
'The Secret' #69907 12/16/08 08:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Inchiki Gaijin Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
I haven't been on the forum for what must be years now, even though I've never lost my love for Learning Strategies Corporation's products and Paul Sheele's expertise. However, I am disappointed to see that LSC is buying into 'The Secret', by creating programs as a spin-off to it, because it's obviously nothing more than a marketing gimmick for 25 'gurus' to promote their products. Even the sales letter for the 'Effortless' course is different in feel, and has all the hallmarks of the Intermet Marketing phenomenon (read 'scam') that has taken hold in recent years, not to mention the price and the upsells. Yes, I was once an Internet Marketer too, and I fell for all these less than honest techniques when I bought IM products, and learned how to do it myself. I felt like I needed a wash after most of it!

I mean come on, you'll be associating with Joe Vitale next - the 'guru' who writes shallow spiritual book after shallow spiritual book, which are little more than vehicles to advertise his other shallow works. Oh, yes, and he gets Amazon to remove most of the negative reviews of his trash - 'Honest Joe' eh? There's nothing spiriual about Internet Markting, and nothing hypnotic about the constant references to his other works.

So leave 'The Secret' alone, please. LSC, you are better than that! You have the integrity, and you don't need the hype when what you have is already so good. Don't spoil it all just to climb on the bandwaggon of this cheesy book and movie, which, incidentally, deliberately ignores the REAL secret by having removed Esther Hicks from it. Look for 'The secret behind the secret' on Youtube.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Inchiki Gaijin] #69912 12/16/08 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
Jeanne Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
I think you're being a little harsh here. If some new-agey authors are a bit shallow to you, remember that someone totally new to the subject might find it incredibly deep. Some "shallow" authors' books might be the perfect entry to a world of wonders. Why would you want to deprive them of that?

I kind of like reading Vitale's books, and sometimes I learn from them. That said, he does a LOT of self-promoting in all of his books, so if I buy one (I prefer to borrow one from the library most of the time), I know what I'm getting. He's entertaining, he's a good writer, and he seems to have a good time with it all. I think Vitale "gets it"--he's achieved wealth, probably a lot of wealth, and he's had a lot of fun in the process. Bonus--he probably does help some people.

But do YOU get it? You don't seem as though you're having a good time, and from your post, it almost seems as though you'd rather control what other people do than enjoy your own successes. The main message I get from your post is, don't practice or buy material from certain authors (or is it certain topics?) and that LSC shouldn't market such material, and if they do, they shouldn't use good marketing techniques.

Just some thoughts that came to me while reading your post.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Jeanne] #69919 12/17/08 01:56 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
uniquesoul Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
I must say that I enjoy Joe Vitale's book The Key, which I bought on the back of his CD's The Missing Secret. I think the guy is entertaining and presents some good idea. Through him I got into Ho'oponopono. I am the first to admit that he is a huge promoter of himself and repeats himself in his books, as most other new age gurus do. I try to learn something from him to keep moving ahead in life. In my view there is no ultimate guru. Most new age gurus tap heavily into work done 50-100 years ago like Napoleon Hill, Maxwell Maltz, etc.

What is important to me is listening again and again to the same CD's as I keep learning more from them. I have learnt to be less critical of new age gurus and just accept what they offer. Of course, when it is a matter of buying new books or products, I tend to be very careful. I believe that LSC has lots of good products which can take people way ahead in life. Of course, LSC has a marketing strategy to stay in business and pursue growth. After all the free service on the forum here is an invaluable complement to the products.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: uniquesoul] #69937 12/19/08 03:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Inchiki Gaijin Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Hi Jeanne

Thanks for your reply (and uniquesoul's too). You make some interesting points, and as I like a good discussion, I'll take the opportunity to answer them. I hope they'll be taken in the spirit they are intended.

You wrote: Some "shallow" authors' books might be the perfect entry to a world of wonders. Why would you want to deprive them of that?

I wouldn't. And, in fact, that it has brought this New Thought to people who might not otherwise have looked into it is the only redeeming feature I see in 'The Secret', which, if you remember actually HIDES the real secret because 'the masses' aren't yet deemed ready to hear the word 'vibration' yet, any more than they were when it was edited completely (more than 30 times!) out of the original edition of Napoleon Hill's 'Think and Grow Rich'. Something about 'The Secret' stinks, and if you listen to the Hicks' views on this, you'll realise why. It's like buying a new edition of 'The Bible' with Jesus and the word 'love' edited out of it.

My beef here is with LSC following the crowd and taking up the war cry. I respect LSC, what it stands for and its teachers deeply, and to see them take up with the trashy Internet Marketing crowd, strikes a discord within me, maybe moreso because I've seen behind the scenes of IM myself.

You wrote: I think Vitale "gets it"--he's achieved wealth, probably a lot of wealth, and he's had a lot of fun in the process. Bonus--he probably does help some people.

Again, I would have to agree with that last sentence, BUT, remember he achieved that wealth by being in the right place at the right time when all this Internet Marketing stuff was in in its infancy. Maybe that is the LOA at work, I don't know. But a few other marketers made a lot of money at the same time, but I'd bet good money they wouldn't be crowing quite so loudly if they came into IM now, and had to struggle against the massive competition.

I have no beef with his marketing/copywriting books - I have his 'Hypnotic marketing' course myself, and it's very good. I learned a lot from it and improved my copywriting ability. But there it stops. His spiritual books are shallow and trashy, and merely vehicles for promotion of his other books. My heart sinks when I see that egg of a face advertising yet another 'Missing Secret' book. And you only need to look at Amazon, and the deleted negative comments in the forums, and complaints of deleted reviews in the comments sections to know that something underhand is going on here. I get a bad vibe from him, and I will go with what I feel. He does 'get it'. He knows just how to peddle his wares and make you buy.

Now I have bashed Joe Vitale here big time, I know that, so let me move on to another of these 'Secret' gurus, just for a bit of balance. I'd heard of Bob proctor before, but never any of his stuff. He is billed as a 'philospher' on 'The Secret' so I thought I'd check out his website, and I signed up for his newsletter. I received four hard-sell promotions for his products from him over 2 days (!) so I unsubscribed, from his opt-in spam, which is what email marketing is. Yet again, the money and the marketing is more important than the message. That IS the message behind 'The Secret'.

You wrote: But do YOU get it? You don't seem as though you're having a good time, and from your post, it almost seems as though you'd rather control what other people do than enjoy your own successes.

Oh, I get the marketing angle loud and clear. Would I rather control people? No, but if comment is interpreted as 'control' then I suppose you must be right. Using your point of reference, though, every review on Amazon is an attempt to control; every recommendtion, positive or negative an attempt to control; even your reply to my post is an attempt to control...

You wrote: The main message I get from your post is, don't practice or buy material from certain authors (or is it certain topics?)

Let's go with 'authors' here and, yes, absolutely! We're back to the control thing, but don't we exercise control in all sorts of ways for he good of other people? Do you have children? If so, would you be happy for them to have complete access to everything available on the Internet in this day and age: the wonderful knowledge and information, as well as all the adult sites and hate and violence-promoting sites? Or would you refuse access to the latter? I know what you would do, because it's what I would do - you'd block access! But then censure is control, however well-meant.

I am a teacher in the real world, and have an excellent knowledge of my subject, in fact I had two courses commissioned by a huge educational publisher, so I know what I'm talking about. With that in mind, should I guide those desiring to learn to what I consider to be the best courses, or should I just treat all courses as equal and let them find out for themselves? I would be doing people a great injustice, wouldn't I, if I didn't give my honest and informed opinion.

When I teach my classes, and one of my students makes a mistake, should I give feedback and 'control' that student so he or she has a chance to get it right, or should I just stand there and nothing?

If you were asked about tapes/CDs for hypnosis and personal development, would you recommend Paul's Paraliminals, or would you just say 'Oh, I don't want to control you so I'm not going to tell you?' Not all recordings are created equal, as we know. This is interesting (the bit where it says 'Hypnosis Is Dengerous): http://wendi.com/newsletter/063006/063006.html From your standpoint, as I am interpreting it, dangerous hypnosis tapes should be allowed distribution without comment.

Unless we exercise 'control' and opinion, then all information by all authors on all subjects should be fit reading for all. So, if your significant other brought home a stack of National Front literature and a copy of 'Mein Kampf' and placed it on your bookshelf next to your spiritual books, you shouldn't mind at all. Would you? If you would, at any level, you'd be expressing the desire to control.

Yes, I know, I'm labouring this, but the fact is, we all control and we all give our opinions, and in my case, I am offering an opinion on the way LSC has changed its approach, and not for the better.

You wrote: and that LSC shouldn't market such material, and if they do, they shouldn't use good marketing techniques.

Firstly, there is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' here. They have and that's that. But does that mean I can't comment on it?

'Good marketing techniques' is a misnomer if ever I heard one. A 'good' marketing techique can be effective and still be very underhanded, if not immoral.

But that isn't the point. Pete's sales letters were always written with a simplicity and an integrity that seems to have been lost in the ES one. Yes, he used some techniques to help you along the way to the purchase, and there was no doubt that it was marketing material that you were reading, but there was always the feeling that the value in personal benefit to you was what came first and the business side of it second, as a kind of inevitable benefit from helping others. Kudos.

Now with this new product, and new letter, the vibe I'm getting is that Money Is God (I mean look at the greedy price of the Elite edition!) and, oh yes, we forgot to mention there are a few CDs and stuff you'll get in it too, and a book and whatever... but it takes second place to the hype and, of course, the cash. And then there's the squeeze at the end, when you are taken to the pay point, and have to take an extra step to get the lower levels. Oh, and of course, you are made to feel that the course isn't complete unless you spend the 1.5 grand and get the Elite version. I don't like it. It's a cheap trick and it isn't worthy of LSC. Remember, I am experienced in copywriting myself, and I can show you all the pressure points in that sales letter.

Now, what I say next may be harsh, and I may be wrong, so I give due warning. Who is this Jack Cranfield fellow anyway? The only thing I know about him is that he compiled (not wrote!) the 'Chicken Soup' books and slapped his name on the cover. Yes, I know, they have brought joy to millions (which I don't deny or resent) but they have also made million, which was the point of it all. Jack Cranfield strick out and got mega^rich, but it was a marketing exercise, and yes, it paid off. Now with that kind of money, you can have anything you want! You can have your choice of sports cars, chicks, ideal partners and you could but a 'little place in the country' the size of Buckingham Palace if you wanted it. You don't need to attract it, because money talks.

I see he has written a business book (and remember, business is what this guy does best - and hats off to that!) but his Law Of Attraction book comes under fire for being merely a regurgition of other people's work. So, I think I'll pass. I'll learn what I need to know from the source of the new interest in the LOA, Abraham/Hicks. At $1500, this new course is nothing more than 'Chicken Soup For The Bank Account'.

I reitterate: LSC you're bigger and better than this!

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Inchiki Gaijin] #69941 12/19/08 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
uniquesoul Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
You seem to have an ax to grind with marketing. I did so for a long time, then I turned around and decided that there was some useful information in it, even if I do not buy the product.

I subscribe to several sites which send daily emails. Some turn out to be useful and inspirational (like Brian Tracy), other informative (like LSC), other so-so, other trashy. I keep cancelling what I don't need. If you like you can eliminate all the advertising you get by either cancelling the subscription to the service or putting it into the phishing bin.

I take your point that there is a fine line between spirituality and increase in awareness promoted by a zillion of gurus, and their marketing strategies. Marketing is to sell to make money. As long as it is done honestly, it is a psychological method to make you separate from some of your money in exchange for goods you like to own. I have no issue about anybody reaching great wealth by providing some teaching which is morally sound, as almost all of these teachings are. If you cannot resist to the marketing gimmicks, then I suggest you stop getting this promotional material. As I explained above, I was able to turn around my disliking of marketing into a liking.

Good luck in your path towards increased awareness!

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: uniquesoul] #69944 12/19/08 02:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
Jeanne Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
Unique Soul--Hah, I do the same thing! Some of those long marketing letters make for good reading, even though I don't usually buy the product(s).

Inchiki Gaijin--I am a freelance writer, and sometimes do reviews. Some of them appear on amazon.com. I panned one of Vitale's books, and it's still there. I'm not sure I buy your conspiracy theory. Most of the reviews that are removed (and not just speaking of Vitale--this is store-wide) are removed for other reasons, such as having written a "review" without bothering to read the material. Not fair to write a review for the book without bothering to read it, but many people with an axe to grind or someone to promote do just that, especially the political books.

I think LSC is doing just fine. Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but I think I'm entitled to my (counter) opinion as well. I truly like Bob Proctor's paraliminal, although I confess that when it comes to voices, I much prefer all Scheele all the time.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Jeanne] #69960 12/20/08 03:35 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
uniquesoul Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 539
I still believe you need to choose a personal development product and use it for a while. Whatever it is, it's not important. What matters is that you had a start towards a certain direction within your own life. If you do not get the results, try to understand why. This is why LSC is excellent since they provide a forum for each group of products. The moderators are here to help on behalf of LSC. Other companies do the same, others don't.

I still believe I can learn from each guru. It is a matter whether I want to buy his products (books, CD's, workshops, etc). Since each of us is different, we like different people. I have time for Joe Vitale, but I would not rank him as target of my greatest admirations. I would put Eckhart Tolle ahead of him. However, Eckhart is a contemporary philosopher, but personal development trainer.

You need to find your own path, but I suggest you be grateful for anything which comes towards you, regardless of your initial perception of it.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: uniquesoul] #69962 12/20/08 04:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Inchiki Gaijin Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
OK, so as a matter of interest do either of you have the Elite Edition of this course? I just wondered what results you were getting from it. I am seriously interested, but only because LSC created the course.

Jeanne, the paraliminal you listened to...was it the LOA one in the main paraliminals section?

Conspiracy theory on Amazon? Read the comments for his books, and you'll see complains of removed reviews, and look at the forums on Amazon and see how many comments have been removed.

I reviewed 'The E Code' twice, both times with 1 star and a negative review (and I had read it, yes!). Both times my reviews were removed.

Maybe I should just write my own book on the Law Of Attraction and cash in on the trend too. Let me see,...'The Missing Secret Wealth And Abundance System Of The Jedi Masters', with a blatant ad on every left page, and every other page blank (for notes, ahem). I'll get a picture of Tony Soprano and slap that on the cover, and everyone will it's by Joe Vitale and buy it!

So thanks for that idea. I appreciate it. Hey, maybe I'll get famous and Paul will do Paraliminals for my course too, so maybe, after 'The Secret 2' has come out (as it surely will!), you'll see me in the revolving headers on this site grinning like a Cheshire Cat that got all the cream!

'You need to find your own path, but I suggest you be grateful for anything which comes towards you, regardless of your initial perception of it.'

Hmmm...

I'm off to read my signed copy of 'Mein Kampf' (because I'm grateful for it) and grind that trusty axe.

Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Inchiki Gaijin] #69969 12/20/08 05:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
Jeanne Offline
Member
Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
 Quote:

Jeanne, the paraliminal you listened to...was it the LOA one in the main paraliminals section?


The name of it is Power Thinking. It's become one of my favorites.

As for this particular program--no, I've not bought it at all. I read here from time to time to see what others say about it.

See? Sometimes that fancy-schmancy ad writing doesn't work at all. Sometimes people delve into their own minds, and make their own decisions. A good ad (as good as they can get even) isn't a guarantee that everyone who sees it is going to bite.

But hey, go ahead and produce your 'The Missing Secret Wealth And Abundance System Of The Jedi Masters.' It might take off like a rocket, and unlike some, I have NO problems with someone being a success. I think you should write it, but add spam at your own peril, because it takes a lot of verbal charm to pull it off in a way that won't turn the readers off so completely that there won't be a single favorable review.

Unique Soul: Yes, I agree about Vitale. Guru, he's not. For me, he's just a fun guy to read. Actually, I have very few "gurus" per se. I take gems of wisdom where I find them, there's a huge field of them to pick through. Donna Eden, Jose Silva, Robert B. Stone, Dr. John LaTourrette, Kenneth Cohen--these are just a few. The paraliminal cds help me to put those snippets to good, constructive use.



Last edited by Jeanne; 12/20/08 05:34 PM.
Re: 'The Secret' [Re: Jeanne] #69976 12/21/08 05:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Inchiki Gaijin Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 318
Power Thinking, eh? I might have a look at it. I'm going to order a few of the new Paraliminals in the next week or two. I haven't heard one with Holosync on it before, so it should be interesting.

You wrote: See? Sometimes that fancy-schmancy ad writing doesn't work at all.

No, because it's not a very good sales letter. In fact it's not very good at all! You can't read the handwritten sub-heads easily, which is a huge mistake, and the hard-sell is blatant, which is the point I was making in my original post on this thread. Add to that the price. I mean, come on! That is excessive. I'll bet they get a few returns on it, unless it works really, really, really well. I mean, I'm talking an instantaneous manifestation of something akin to a miracle of Biblical proportions! And then there's the newsletter. Hmm... well, if the system is perfect, then why do you need newsletters?

You've got me ranting again - your fault!

I take it you looked on Amazon, then. I just noticed a review of 'The Secret' by a longhorn24 - spot on!

You wrote: unlike some, I have NO problems with someone being a success

'Some' meaning Inchiki Gaijin? I have no problem with people being successful if they deserve it. I do have a problem with people piggy-backing off others' efforts though, and I seek to expose them. I also don't like trashy products, which is why I could never write a book like Joe Vitale.

I wonder what they'll use as an angle for 'The Secret 2' considering they were supposed to have given away 'The Secret' in 'The Secret'. I know, maybe they'll all claim to be current incarnations of various religious icons.

Bob: Me wanna be Jesus! Me wanna be Jesus!
John: Oh, Bob, don't start all that again. We agreed that Joe was going to be Jesus.
Bob: So who can I be then?
John: Well, Mary Magdalene hasn't been taken yet, but then again, maybe not everyone has read 'The Da Vinci Code' and don't realise that she wasn't a hooker, but was actually a very nice lady from Venus...
Bob: Oh, enough already with that planet cra....

It would be funny if it were not so sad: Wayne Dyer is claiming to be the present incarnation of St Francis of Assisi!!!

You wrote: it takes a lot of verbal charm to pull it off in a way that won't turn the readers off so completely that there won't be a single favorable review

I am charming! I am! I am! And funny too. Can't you tell?

And anyway, if I don't like the reviews I'll just Joe them and get my marketing team to sign up and post multiple 5-star ones.

It ain't what you write, it's how you market it!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Wendy_Greer 

©, Learning Strategies Corporation, All Rights Reserved
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3