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#726 01/26/03 10:02 PM
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Just wondering, how many people here have experienced "IQ" gains as a result of their ISing? I konw all about the Reinert study. The reason I ask is that I am trying to establish the nature of an "upper-limit" for IQ gains as a result of ISing. Win Wenger indicates that no such barrier can be established. For all you veteran ISers- meaning over 25 hours practice-- what has your experience been? Under what conditions did you practice? Did you follow Wengers technique precisely? Did you ask specific, or general questions? How much did you feature-question? Did you use over-the-wall procedure? Anything..?!
K.Olafsson






#727 01/26/03 10:55 PM
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Search the forum

Alex






#728 01/26/03 11:19 PM
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I may have missed it, but nobody seems to talk about having greater than 25 hrs. ISing practice. The Reinert study satisfies me about the gains expected below 25 hrs. Have you ISed for longer than that?







#729 01/26/03 11:28 PM
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Makes no difference to me if I did. I got more interesting things to do than play with so called IQ test.

Alex






#730 01/26/03 11:48 PM
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Granted, the IQ test is boring and doesn't assess the full range of a persons abilities. But honestly! If people could really reliably improve their IQ's 30, 50, 100 points, than this technique would soon spread over the entire world, and become mainstream! As it is 20 pts. is highly significant, but it can be written off to opening up latent abilities in an individuals repertoire of problem-solving- all these participants in the Reinert study began with an avg. IQ 95. 50 pts. absolutely couldn't be written off. The full-range of benefits for Image-Streaming are much more important than just IQ, but IQ is the easiest quantifiable one. If you want to get people impressed with this technique than quantifiable data is the way to go. And, yes, I do practice Image-Streaming...I find it one of the most fascinating, and beneficial, things espoused on this board.








#731 01/27/03 12:43 AM
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trying to keep this post alive, he has a point, although IQ doesnt really mean much (mine personally jumped 30 points after a mere attitude change) it can be used to attract more people and increase their confidence! so please reply if you can






#732 01/27/03 01:15 AM
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What you concentate upon improving you eventually do improve. If you want to improve mastery of of accounting you work at it study it and learn it... measure the before accountancy quotient you get a low score... work at study it for x hours and lo and behold the accountancy quotient goes up.

Get someone with low academic skill You got a low academic quotient... give that individual reason or a want and they spend x hours studying to improve this skill then measure again you have an improvement in the academic quotient.

As already mentioned in another post having a High IQ does not a genius make... that research was already carried out some years ago.

Now heres some other interesting findings.

People with High IQ tend to be employed by people of Average IQ. For some reason people with High IQ spend more time needing proof while people with average IQ are action oriented. The get results by trial and error. The ones with High IQ's tend to be push through the path of highly educated. Where they learn proof must be on paper before they try the test on themselves.

If you want to know if it works... test your own IQ and do image streaming for 25 hours and see the results yourself.

A forum with people posting I had an IQ of 60 and I did image streaming and now its 90 is extraordinary poor reseach data.

Alex






#733 01/27/03 02:30 PM
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Obviously peoples IQ would not become the sole focus of this forum. Your analogy of people working at a particular skill and improving at it does not hold for image-streaming. Image-streaming does not work at all on a persons analytical abilities, yet, according to the Reinert studies, and Wenger, that ability improves along with the other abilities one would expect-- such as creativity, subconscious access, awareness, etc. They said that analytical abilities improve even with just pure image-streaming-- i.e. little decoding effort--and that seems verified by some peoples posts here. In your message you imply that I am not practicing image-streaming myself; in fact, I am. As for numerics I have a general range of where I would log in on an IQ test, and after I log around 50 hrs. practice-- if I notice my "intelligence" having noticeably improved, which I expect-- I plan on getting a more accurate assessment.
If we had people posting gains-- whether or not you like the IQ measurement-- of 40 pts. or more, and we made other people aware of the reason for it, I think that ISing would catch on very rapidly. Because, despite the limited scope of the IQ test it does still measure a certain type of thinking ability, which conventional wisdom says cannot change more than + or - 5-10%. Furthermore, it would be remarkable that a technique involving no direct practice of analytical abilities would affect it at 40%!
K.Olafsson








#734 01/27/03 03:12 PM
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AlexK, I can see your point--IQ gains (and tests) are useless and futile if that's all your worried about. However, Kristoff, I understand what you mean too.

I think that if one can jump 40, 50 iq points, which seems to be entirely possible, the public would just get rid of the IQ test and make a new intelligence test--to them, the test has to be reliable and jumping 50 points is not.

The most effective way to catch the public's attention would probably be something like, "I imagestreamed this much, and I passed this class without studying." Or "I IS'ed so much, now I got a raise," etc.






#735 01/27/03 04:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kristoff Olafsson:

Image-streaming does not work at all on a persons analytical abilities, yet, according to the Reinert studies, and Wenger, that ability improves along with the other abilities one would expect-- such as creativity, subconscious access, awareness, etc. They said that analytical abilities improve even with just pure image-streaming-- i.e. little decoding effort--and that seems verified by some peoples posts here.

It either does or it doesn't - who is the authority that said it doesn't - based on what test? You named who does.

There is a fundamental reason why you won't get people like me involved with IQ test - life; there are other things that matter more and some games are just a waste of time.

Alex






#736 01/28/03 02:42 AM
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Kristoff Olafsson, what is your IQ then?






#737 01/28/03 11:01 PM
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My IQ is not the issue here. I never said anything about an authority saying it didn't improve analytical abilities, I said that the process does not act directly upon analytical abilities- i.e. one doesn't evaluate strategies of problem-solving when one image-streams. Yet the Reinert studies, and the observations of many people bear out the fact that Image-streaming does improve, indirectly, ones analytical abilities. My question is how far above the Reinert studies measurements can one improve their "IQ" on a standard intelligence test. The Reinert studies actually only got to 10 pts. in the versions I saw, but from this point Reinert was able to make a graph predicting gains beyond this point. I am just curious about how far above that point one can get with image-streaming; if one can improve by a whole 40 pts. than the entire cognitive-studies world would jump up and pay a lot of attention! That kind of a gain would show a lot about what intelligence really means. That is why I think it worthwhile...I'm not asking everyone to do it, or anyone for that matter. It just seems reasonable to expect at least a few people dedicated to image-streaming to try it themselves. I have said that I plan on doing so myself...my current IQ, which I have only established generally, is for my own info. when I have a real WAIS-R, which I will only do after logging around 40 or 50 hrs. Image-Streaming and 3-5 mos. If their is a significant, 30-50 pt. difference at that time I will conclude that Image-Streaming was involved in making such a substantial gain. I will make this info. available, for what its worth- which admittedly is limited-- so other people can get an idea about a ceiling for the gains possible with image-streaming...this certainly deserves to be researched.






#738 01/29/03 04:48 AM
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Then I suggest you try the dedicated image stream forum. Users of the Genius Code are using more tools than just image streaming and generally the purpose is to learn to understand and utilise the codes of our minds.

Alex






#739 01/30/03 03:41 AM
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OK. point taken. I just thought that this forum would be very interested in a relatively simple procedure- image-streaming, and how it can improve/enlighten their own minds. All it would take to test my idea about IQ ceilings is 20 minutes a day for 5-6 months. Not that much. Am doing it myself.






#740 02/14/03 05:51 PM
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I am with you Kristoff, ill try your experiment as well, just give me the formal detials i will get started (thus far i have ISed only about 1hour total and i noticed a slight increase in processing speed (i finished a chemistry chapter faster than ever, i.e. the problems seemed easier to absorb) anyway enough of that. Just send me the protocol and ill get started.






#741 02/15/03 05:12 PM
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Excellent. The first step is to get some sort of indication about your current IQ. Their are many online tests, of varying efficacy. If you choose to go that route take a variety-- at least 3-- of timed, online tests. Look for tests which seem like the authors invested some time in them. A simple google search will be very effective. Ideally, though, you should take an "official" IQ test, administered by a professional psychologist, or your local chapter of MENSA. I found about a 20 point spread in the online tests I took so I made an average. The next step, is, of course, Image-streaming. This should be done in 20 minute segments, as often as one can manage. Go to Win Wengers site for full instructions. Based on his calculation of 4/5's of a point per hour, and the fact that I found a 20 point discrepancy, I decided to make my margin of error large, and so my total image-streaming hours will be enough to gain--if the technique actually works-- 30 points IQ. That is about 38 hours worth, which I'll just round off to 40. That means about 120 20 minute sessions. I figured in that I will spend the next 6 months reaching that number. At this point I plan to take a "professional" IQ test. If all goes well my IQ should be at least 10 points higher than my highest online score was. If it is than I'll conclude that Image-streaming functions as promised. Note: the Reinert studies actually did not go up to 20 points IQ as Win would lead us to believe. They actually got to about 8 points during the published study, and the rest is a predictive graph assuming the same rate of change. Anyways, that is my roughly controlled plan. Not entirely scientific but it should cover all the possibilities. I would love to see you and others do this as well. It would be effective cross-motivation. I'm sure that Win and Paul would be interested to know as well. Finally, I'd like to state that a certain degree of healthy skepticism leads me to conclude that the ceiling for gain may be lower than the amount we intend on practising...it has to level off somewhere, there's no such thing as unlimited gain.
Best of luck,
K.Olafsson








#742 02/15/03 05:46 PM
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Right, i will begin logging hours as you stated, my belief is similiar to yours, but as alex says its not the IQ points that makes image streaming important, i just want to convince some of my friends that it can increase something "objective".

[IQ scores change very fast, even when we hold the test type constant, but i decide to post my scores here anyway]
I already have a some IQ scores my emode score was 138, iqtest.com was 140, and a few others were 126, 132, so i am guessing i can make a safe estimate that my "iq" is about 135, i am saving the mensa exam for the post IS measurement. I just have one question, my IQ in high school was about 107 and then it jumped after i got interested in math, then i stopped doing it for about 4-5 months, and a friend of mine asked me to take a IQ test (very similiar) and i scored 133, right now i am starting to do the math puzzles for fun again, and my brain is starting to process faster because of my speed reading training, so how can i seperate results derived from solving creative problems from gains derived from ISing. I really dont want to stop doing the other 2 things since they are very enjoyable. Please advise (anyone who can think of method)

[This message has been edited by Serpentaura (edited February 15, 2003).]






#743 02/16/03 04:40 AM
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Personally I don't think you can. Improved mental skills in one area are just going to kick of activities in other areas and the more you use your brain the better your brain works for you.

It is interestng to note when you follow the forum for image streamers that they start exploring other brain activity. Games like becoming ambidextrous, juggling, brain gym exercises, standing on one leg with eyes closed etc.

I personally think that image streaming (as well as other brain exercises) create an 'appetite' for more and to handle IQ test you do need to experience more.

Have fun with it.

Alex






#744 02/16/03 05:15 AM
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I would just like to say that IS'ing, HTT'ing, sip breathing, etc. do work. Started with an already high IQ of 128, after 7 hours of IS'ing, and 11 HTT days, my IQ is already 150! If this is only the beginning, how high can you go?







#745 02/16/03 10:16 PM
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Thanks

Alex:

I feared that would be the answer, but its not going to stop me from recording my results, i will just have to point out that i was "working out" my brain in a variety of ways. I will just try my best to "analyze" what is benefiting me more (if at all possible). Or maybe i can assign a 10 point increase due to math, and reading complex texts. Then grant any further improvement as IS exclusive? Any ideas Alex (or anyone else)

Arthur:
Thanks for your post, it has inspired me to redouble my efforts (hehehe hopefully your not dr.wenger "undercover", j.k)






#746 02/17/03 09:25 PM
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As you said that is a tricky call. With so many factors one cannot isolate just this, or just that. However, it would be best to study math and logic or whatnot and come to whatever level you find high enough, whatever that may be and just for the duration of the experiment, then measure your IQ. At this point do not study to any higher of a level-of-difficulty in the mathematics, but you may continue applying what you do know, just don't do it as much as you IS. Than continuue ISing for about 20 hours and than remeasure your IQ. Any gains, while maybe not exclusively ISing, are likely to be mostly IS-related...that is all that I would like to see. Furthermore, if any of you feel up to it, the Prometheus Society has a giant online mega-test, which one can take. Supposedly they only accept people with IQ's above 164. You don't have to join, just take the test, and see how far you have come with (mostly) ISing. That would be a true test of the ceiling for IQ.






#747 02/18/03 09:58 PM
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The problem is "to what ever level i fell high enough", its not really about raising my level, its about wanting to keep moving and increasing at a decent rate, i am sure that math will be an impurity in this experiment but its impossible for me to give it up, for practical, and personal reasons. I am not implying that you are asking me to do something, i am just stated that i will continue the experiment but i will measure my math progress alongside using tests like US olympiad etc. I will take my starting score and subtract by my highest score (giving me a percent improvement) then use that to compare with my orignal IQ gain (107-133, which was about a 40% improvement on the SAT) and subtract that from my final IQ gain at the end of the IS logging and if the net result is over 25 points(of gain) i will conclude that ISing works well beyond 25 hours. Otherwise i might start a second log, and the underwater thing to see if the results are positively synergistic or additive/addictive .






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