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ZMNC, while I do think you're having a naughty, little troll, I also believe you are raising a valid question here: Where are all these amazing Photoreaders with their amazing results?

The questions for comprehension in the PR book, are also pretty obvious without having 'Photoread' it, especially if you already have an interest and some knowledge of brain/mind-related ideas. Multiple-choice is an easy way to get people to give the response you want for your statistice.

For example:

The book 'Photoreading', bu Paul Scheele, is about:

(a) llama breeding

(b) making fruit smoothies

(c) improving your ability to process information at an other-than-conscious level

A far more realistic test would be one whereby the Photoreader has to summarize the contents of a chapter, giving full details and references without all the obvious prompting.

If you looked for the NASA study, you'll see that the results were as follows (source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoReading):

The results of the study generally follow the pattern that PhotoReading and normal reading require a similar amount of time to complete.

In one test, the expert scored 37 of 38 possible questions correct with normal reading taking 19.43 minutes to do so. Then the expert took a similar test after PhotoReading the passage and scored a 38 out of 38 possible questions correct in a time of 18.13 minutes. McNamara took the same test, and scored a 92% both times. However, photoreading took 21.30 minutes whereas regular reading took 15.80 minutes. These results do not support Scheele's 25,000 words per minute claims.

In a text about perception, the expert read normally and finished the text in 8.82 minutes and answered three questions of eight correctly. Then, the expert "photoread" the text in 0.87 minutes and proceeded to read the text for another 8.12 minutes before finishing. After photoreading, the expert scored one out of eight questions correctly.

These results do not support Scheele's assertions that Photoreading helps one study faster and with greater comprehension than with ordinary reading techniques.

To conclude the study, McNamara noted that, "In terms of words per minute (wpm) spent reading, there was no difference between normal reading (M = 114 wpm) and PhotoReading (M=112 wpm)" (10). So why is it that so many people tout photoreading? In her conclusion, McNamara states that, "One aspect of the PhotoReading technique is that it leaves the reader with a false sense of confidence."

I, too, remain unconvinced. I like LSCs products, and I'm not accusing LSC of anything underhand here, but I, too, would like to see a bit more - or any - concrete evidence that it actually works, beyond people just saying it does! It reminds me of Ziad Fazah and his claim that he speaks 57+ languages, yet when he was actually called on to perform, he couldn't understand even the most basic of utterances in languages at which he is supposed to excel. So, Jacktuff13, I don't think it's a matter of gloating; it's a question of no concrete evidence supporting the claims of Photoreading, much like being unable to understand 'What day is it?' in Russian, when you claim to be the world's most accomplished polyglot.

Photoreading isn't the only 25,000 pm reading system out there. Ed Strachar has a system called 'Reding Genius' out there, and Dan Lee Dimke created a program in the 70s that he teaches in his Ultralearn seminar.

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"A far more realistic test would be one whereby the Photoreader has to summarize the contents of a chapter, giving full details and references without all the obvious prompting."

In both the 2004 and 2007 retreat every participant was given the 30 minute challenge. Someone gave us a book and we had to tell that person about that book. There were people who were tested for the 30 minute challenge on stage in front of the camera.They answered specific questions about the book at the end of 30 minutes.

These things don't convince you naturally. Because reading doesn't work. You cannot read. Did you know that? Reading is technically an impossible feat.

Letters are symbols which poorly translate sound. We look at the symbols and give them meaning. Where in reality they have no meaning. They are abstract. Someone can look at them and give them voice but lets get real. You cannot touch the symbols they only have meaning that we as individuals gave them.

How did we give them meaning? Rote learning which ultimately helped us to memorise certain patterns and give the set of symbols a meaning.

This leads to problem two. Comprehension which is the second stage of learning to read. Learning to understand what you are reading.

49 percent of the educated public cannot read even to a basic level. less than 40% can read to college level. The most taught subject in college is remedial reading. They try to get people to read beyond grade nine level.

Now you take PhotoReading and try to correct that?

Back to comprehension. That in itself requires thinking. Most people read with a degree of comprehension. However it is only as effective as that little voice that says the words in their mind so they hear someone speaking or telling them stuff.

Which is interesting about the NASA Report. No one ever actually reads the PDF themselves and thinks about what the researcher/trainee (who is the same person) is testing for. They take the word of whoever had something to point out about it but there in is a danger. You miss what they probably missed.

The first part of the report... the researcher is checking for speed reading or the ability to read at 25,000 words a minute.

If you've followed me and the Learning Strategies site for any length of time you know
ē You Cannot READ at 25,000 WPM
ē PhotoReading is not READING

Knowing that and if you read the report you might just notice the researcher is testing PhotoReading for something it is not. Since PhotoReading is not reading at 25,000 wpm why is the researcher testing PhotoReading for that?

Another thing you might notice if you read the report. It makes no mention of NASA or how it is connected to NASA. A thinking person did question that and made an interesting finding.

Another thing about the report. The PhotoReading professional did not agree to participate in all the experiments - The expert isn't named. To a scientist this makes any research inconsistent. Unless there is the numbers to account for drop outs.

And a thinking person might even question the validity of something that claims to be scientific research where the researcher is a participant / trainee?

All that the research proved is that PhotoReading is not reading at 25,000 wpm and that you cannot read at 25,000 wpm.

PhotoReading itself is one step of a system. The system as someone who was taught to read can point out teaches many of the aspects of basic good reading habits.

Can you drop the PhotoReading step and improve your reading? Yes, if you haven't already adopted the basic good habits of questioning what you read.

 Quote:
3) How come there are no videos of people taking tests with the camera zoomed in on their paper so you can see those people actually answering questions after photo reading? Iíve looked all over the internet and I can't find any videos like that.
I don't know about you but do you have any idea how badly having someone breathing over my should affects my concentration?

And what would you see? Someone answering a test. If you want to model a person you need to step back observe not hang over them. You know give them space to perform.

 Quote:
4) On the work shop videos it only shows people doing the photo reading system, but there are not very many videos showing the system works. The only video Iíve seen was one by LSC where the PR students were asked questions about books when they were in front of a mic.


Here's a paradox. You see people doing the system. But not how the system works. Like I said earlier, reading itself is subjective. It's not something you would see much more of when it comes to doing the system.

Showing someone how to climb into my mind while I PhotoRead has been an interesting problem. In my classes I show them what I do each step but it doesn't show them how to do the system instead it takes a lot of explaining and drumming in the steps. Each student takes away a key that unlocks the process for them. My last one hit the glory and summed it up as, "Have a conversation with the author." Now how do you show that visually?

 Quote:
5) Call learning strategies corporation and see what kind of coaching you get. Hopefully you get good ones now that LSC sees this post on their forums.


"Help it didn't work?" As much as I'd love to give you PhotoReading you do need to meet me part way. Lately your post haven't left me with much coaching material. Right now you are like the Zen student all talk but no way for the teacher to find out where you are stuck or what you are doing.

What did you do that didn't work? Yes I ask for specifics because I cannot teach in one email what I teach in a weekend. Actually I could but you'd wind up getting enough pages to fill a book and the book has been written so that wouldn't solve the problem. If you're lost you need to give the coaches some landmark to tell us where you are at.

How far have you gone in the course?

 Quote:
6) Look up photo reading on YouTube and see if there are any people who make these videos actually show you their GENIUS abilities? There should be lots of people because supposedly a lot of people can apply this system successfully.[quote]

Why do you assume that PhotoReading turns people into some sort of savant? We are ordinary people who live our lives with our own personal aspirations. I use PhotoReading to get my reading done faster and yes I could go through more books and become something like a walking encyclopaedia. But what's the joy in that? For one I like to socialise, chat with friends over coffee, look out the window, walk the dog. Laugh, cry and enjoy my life. You might see something exciting about being a "genius" that gets millions of hits on youtube for their brilliance. Rest assured though most people just want to live a decent life and provide for their family. Something about being a one hit wonder on youtube doesn't entice a lot of people.

You make the assumption everyone wants to be like you when you ask a question like that.

[quote]11) Are you the type of lazy person that cannot stand making big posts or typing new ideas and opinions on forums? ZMasterNCreator is considered lazy even though he is an active member on forums. ZMasterNCreator listened to programs all the way through and applied them as it said. If someone like ZMasterNCreator struggles to gain substantial benefits, will you?


I've written enough post on this forum to fill 3 books. over 4000 of those post are under my old user name prior to joining Learning Strategies on a professional level.

 Quote:
13) Why are visualiminals sold on a site that is seperate from learning strategies corporation? If there are visualiminals, ...


Is not a Learning Strategies product. The company that developed them is based in England. Paul didn't develop Visualiminals He did have a hand in helping with the development to a degree.

 Quote:
15) Will the answers to all of these questions satisfy your curiosity?


Actually no. We can answer as much as we want. And as I've said since reading is subjective only you will ever be able to satisfy your curiosity.

 Quote:
2) I believe photoreading is possible. Secretly I'm hoping for someone to reply to your post saying "are you kidding? I PR lawbooks and my activation of them helps me tremendously"


I cannot help laughing at that one... Search the forum for the former user CommmonSense He was a district attorney who uses PhotoReading, I don't know what his career status is now. He did make a post that did say PhotoReading helps him with the law books. Though without the phrase "are you kidding?" \:D It did take him 12 months before he 'got it'. He got it during a court case I believe. Well worth going back to his post period 2002 to 2004.

Want to know something about me?

I came to do the PhotoReading course in 2002. I knew you cannot read at 25,000 wpm so that wasn't what got me to spend the money on the course. What got me was reading 3 books in the time I could read one. My mind did a switch on read 3 times faster.

When I paid for the course I was informed about the forum and I read some of the post here. One stuck out was how much difficulty one person had getting it. It took her 6 months.

I slammed the forum shut. I thought hang on if they can give a 30 day money back guarantee one must be able to learn it within 30 days.

When the course arrived I read the PhotoReading book. Somewhere I had come across the advise from Pete to read the PhotoReading book first in the course so I did that.

At the end of the book after following the little Einsteins I thought whoa, here's an author showing me that I don't need to read everything that's written in the book. That I'm better off visiting the book more than once. And I can get real information in much less time.

I joined the forum "after" I learned PhotoReading. The course arrived 6 March 2002 I signed up 30 March 2002. I got PhotoReading and I'm still here with the intention that I leverage those who want to learn PhotoReading.

PhotoReading changed my life but I'm not waving it around on youtube making out I'm a genius or better than anyone else now that I PhotoRead. That wouldn't help anyone.

What I am doing is standing on a higher step of the ladder and giving a hand up to those still coming up and even a push to those who manage take it further. And it isn't about PhotoReading it's about live and PhotoReading and reading itself is leverage not a magic pill that you swallow once and your life has changed.

AlexK

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Wow... a lot of text really...

What do I think of PR:
1)The whole concept is interesting. I don't know really is it the PR step that helps me find the answers. As I child I read only those parts that were interesting to me, so I was PR in a way. So it is hard to tell if this "page flipping" is really helping
2)I watched a video on YouTube where some reporter went through all the PR step. One phrase caught my attention: "what if you could get through all the material(or something like that) by Photoreading(flipping pages)". There is a misconception. Photography is done in 2-3 secons, but all the steps of PR are taking still way to much time. So it is hard to say that the Whole mind system has anything to do with it.

Even the infomercial with Mr. Bisonnette is giving a wrong understanding what PR really is. People are starting to think that it is just "Page down and that's it", but as we know it is far from that.

3) About those examples about a DA(district attorney). Well nobody really knows is he really exists. Maybe even on the DVD-s all the people there are actors. That is why I am suggesting that LSC should make a tour through Europe and Russia(especially Russia) where they show their skills. That is a good marketing campaign IMHO.

4) Photoreading is not reading... well yeah, it is not reading as we understand it, but it is at least speed reading. I already mentioned that the Skittering technique is the same as what teaches Tony Buzan or Oleg Andreev(a russian coach). So people may call PR whatever they like but there is a saying in Russia(i think in Russia): You can name an old car "Ferrari" but it will not drive because of this faster)))

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Those who know, know.
Those who don't can question those who know all day, but it will change nothing for either of them.
Those who know still know and those who don't still don't.

Very simple really.
You are presented with an idea and unless you enable it to work for you, it cannot.

I don't care what you believe about me, however I know what you 'believe' about yourself seals your fate every time.

When I read about another struggling. I take it as a personal warning to go work on my self and sometimes I am moved to send a blessing...

...sometimes but never twice in the same direction for I will not remain party to enabling weakness.

Believe in your Self or wither.

God made the Law and whole universes sing the song very loudly.

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 Quote:
don't know about you but do you have any idea how badly having someone breathing over my should affects my concentration?

And what would you see? Someone answering a test. If you want to model a person you need to step back observe not hang over them. You know give them space to perform.


So thereís no way of doing it without letting things distract you? Does the average person find a camera being zoomed on their paper more distracting than solving questions from a book theíve just photoread in front of an audience? How come the photoreaders at the retreat could not lose their concentration?

 Quote:
Here's a paradox. You see people doing the system. But not how the system works. Like I said earlier, reading itself is subjective. It's not something you would see much more of when it comes to doing the system.

Showing someone how to climb into my mind while I PhotoRead has been an interesting problem. In my classes I show them what I do each step but it doesn't show them how to do the system instead it takes a lot of explaining and drumming in the steps. Each student takes away a key that unlocks the process for them. My last one hit the glory and summed it up as, "Have a conversation with the author." Now how do you show that visually?


I agree that even reading is subjective, but you are able to objectify your learnings to the real world. You can have a discussion with someone who has a good understanding of a particular book and see if they think you know what you are talking about.

 Quote:
ďHelp it didn't work?" As much as I'd love to give you PhotoReading you do need to meet me part way. Lately your post haven't left me with much coaching material. Right now you are like the Zen student all talk but no way for the teacher to find out where you are stuck or what you are doing.

What did you do that didn't work? Yes I ask for specifics because I cannot teach in one email what I teach in a weekend. Actually I could but you'd wind up getting enough pages to fill a book and the book has been written so that wouldn't solve the problem. If you're lost you need to give the coaches some landmark to tell us where you are at.

How far have you gone in the course?


I told the people on the phone what Iíve been doing and all Iíve been getting were stock answers. They basically told me to reread the book and really couldnít help me. Haha Iíve had enough coaching, thank you very much though. Iíd rather cut out all the distortion and learn from Richard Welch, the guy that taught Paul Scheele the brain management/subliminal dynamics course before he started photoreading.

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Don't tell me that there was a doubt in me for a long time that was holding me back because that's not the case. I've been photoreading for about 3 years and really believed in the system and I was applying photoreading to everything. Just because I have questions NOW about photoreading doesn't mean I had doubt all along. Plus if I didn't have faith in photoreading I wouldn't have applied it to everything. I've had my experience with the system and if you want to end up like me that's your choice.

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Then knock yourself out.



But in the end, it will You teaching you.

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 Originally Posted By: ZMasterNCreator
Don't tell me that there was a doubt in me for a long time that was holding me back because that's not the case. I've been photoreading for about 3 years and really believed in the system and I was applying photoreading to everything. Just because I have questions about photoreading doesn't mean I had doubt all along. I've had my experience with the system and if you want to end up like me that's your choice.


In the old schools no student 'asked questions' for 3-5 years. (nor even spoke a word) They watched and followed instructions or left the school.

Oh how 'soft' the outer world yet is...

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That was pretty much all i did was follow instructions because I just used the system out of faith. I believe that I could already do the system successfully.

Last edited by ZMasterNCreator; 06/26/09 03:33 PM.
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 Originally Posted By: ZMasterNCreator
That was pretty much all i did was follow instructions because I just used the system out of faith. I believe that I could already do the system successfully.


Follow your own heart, keep records.

Best advice in the cosmos.

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