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I've never been able to visualize, not in the sense that every self-help program seems to require. How does one take advantage of these programs (I have four paraliminals) when one isn't able to visualize?

I've been told it's not necessary to actually "see" things because it is. The programs are very specific about imagining thus and so scene or whatever.

The Silva program, which I spent $500 on and flunked because I wasn't able to do even one of the exercises, was the first to tell me that. I flunked because I wasn't able to imagine myself, my consciousness, for instance, going into a wall and describing what it felt like, looked like, etc. Actually "seeing" IS necessary.

What does one do? I've tried brain entrainment using binaural beats, isochronic (sp?), as well as hypnosis (I'm always told to imagine, see, etc.), and, of course, my paraliminals, all with no success.

What's a mother to do? (My wife used to say that. That is, my EX-wife used to say that. She probably still does. I just like the phrase; that's why I included it here, even though I'm in no way equipped to be a mother.) smile

I seem to be unable to fully relax, not able to rid my body of its constant 24-hour-a-day tension, including in my head. So, perhaps that's part of it. I also have been diagnosed with ADD, which doesn't allow me to stay still for very long and concentrate for very long.

Any suggestions?

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The thing with visualisation is you don't see as if you would with your eyes. Do you find your car when you parked it? Do you find your way home at night? You have sound visualisation skills because if you couldn't see in your minds eye what your car or where your home is.

Can you point to something yellow? If so you can visualise.

Now with exercises like the Silva Method you get a sense of. Some people are stronger at hearing or smelling when they get a sense of what "visualisation."

One way of developing the visualisation skill is to stand in front of a painting, study it in detail for two or 3 minutes and then close your eyes and talk about the detail, describe as much as you can. Do that for 10 minutes and then give it a break for a day or two. Do it again a few more times if necessary. Though I doubt it is. All that is required is that you notice that the mind does perceive a lot of details and usually too fast to catch.

I must be pretty lazy when it comes to Paraliminals. I just consider the questions in the booklet, Listen to Paul in the beginning and then just let the non-conscious mind handle the details. I learned long ago, trying to visualise and get it right limits the possibilities of greater than my imaginings. So while I do the visualisation exercises with other programs, I never bothered much for Paraliminals. If my conscious mind caught up with any of the visualisations Paul has on the Paraliminals I just did something. No details though.

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First of all, Alex, thank you for responding. And secondly, thank you for the patience you're going to need in reading my response. smile I've been through all this before . . . numerous times.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
The thing with visualisation is you don't see as if you would with your eyes. Do you find your car when you parked it? Do you find your way home at night? You have sound visualisation skills because if you couldn't see in your minds eye what your car or where your home is.


I understand visualization is not seen through the physical eyes. I close my eyes. All I "see" is black. If there's such a thing as a third eye or mind's eye, I haven't found it yet.

I don't see anything in my mind's eye. My memory serves me to find my way home, etc. If you're saying memory is the same thing as visualization, I would have to disagree with you.

The mind may or may not see in pictures, but if it does, it doesn't translate that to my conscious mind. I still see nothing but black when I close my eyes, yet I can still remember how to find my way home—with my physical eyes and memory, not by visualizing in the way, for instance, Shakti Gawain describes in her seminal book, "Creative Visualization."

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Can you point to something yellow? If so you can visualise.


Sorry. Memory.

I don't buy that. That's just an easy way out to try and explain to people like me who are not able to "see" with one's mind's eye or third eye or whatever.

What you just said is the same thing as saying that I am visualizing with my physical eyes if I can point to something yellow and see it. And you've already said physical eyes don't visualize, at least the way I'm talking here.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Now with exercises like the Silva Method you get a sense of. Some people are stronger at hearing or smelling when they get a sense of what "visualisation."


I'm not sure what you meant by this last bit, because the sentence structures are all ka-fooey.

The exercises in the Silva method involved casting about your conscious awareness into things like walls, up through the roof, etc., none of which I was able to do. And they all involved visualization. They also involved other internal senses, which I am unable to connect to, not speaking of the physical senses, which I connect to just fine.

I am strong in none of the senses you mentioned, when it comes to internal sensing. To me, visualization is visualization. Smelling is smelling. Feeling is feeling. Feeling or smelling is not visualization. Look at the root word—visual.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
One way of developing the visualisation skill is to stand in front of a painting, study it in detail for two or 3 minutes and then close your eyes and talk about the detail, describe as much as you can. Do that for 10 minutes and then give it a break for a day or two. Do it again a few more times if necessary. Though I doubt it is. All that is required is that you notice that the mind does perceive a lot of details and usually too fast to catch.


Anytime I have tried these kinds of exercises, I am relying 100% on the memory of what I saw. And as often as not, I remember very little. And just as often as not, I am wrong in what I am remembering.

When I close my eyes after looking at such items, whatever I look at remains present for about one, maybe two seconds, but it is fading away at a rapid rate at the instant I close my eyes.

Brain damage at two different times in my young life has had a deleterious effect on my memory, and perhaps my ability to "see" with my mind's eye or third eye or whatever.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
I must be pretty lazy when it comes to Paraliminals. I just consider the questions in the booklet, Listen to Paul in the beginning and then just let the non-conscious mind handle the details. I learned long ago, trying to visualise and get it right limits the possibilities of greater than my imaginings. So while I do the visualisation exercises with other programs, I never bothered much for Paraliminals. If my conscious mind caught up with any of the visualisations Paul has on the Paraliminals I just did something. No details though.
Alex


The most I can do when listening to paraliminals is try and relax the best I can and try to ignore what is being said, hoping my subconscious picks up on what Paul is saying. I have a hard time relaxing, so I concentrate on that, not always successfully.

The paraliminal that I am working on exclusively is "Dream Play." I would really like to be able to have lucid dreams.

I've written out my three experiences with lucid dreams in my blog, Odds and End Thoughts at http://oddsandendthoughts.wordpress.com/...acked-up-to-be/ — if you're interested.

Sorry, if I seem thick-headed, but I hear these kinds of explanations every time I talk with someone about my situation.

I'm not ignorant regarding these things, as I'm very widely read on the subject. I know I've got a pituitary gland up there somewhere, which is supposed to be the seat of the third eye, so-called, but I'm just not able to "turn it on." I do all the things the books say, but nothing seems to work.

So, if it seems I'm a little thick-headed, I'm just a little tired of hearing the same-old, same-old mantras for my not being able to visualize, all the while being told I am in fact visualizing.

For me, there are no white screens upon which to "see" stuff or work rooms where I am supposed to "do" stuff, all with my eyes closed.

My former brother-in-law can visualize with his eyes open. In fact, he can look at a wallpaper full of cars and make the cars move around. He can actually undress people with his mind, if he so desired. To me, stuff like this is visualization in its highest form, not that I want to undress people with my mind. smile

Not pointing at something yellow and seeing it with my eyes and telling myself I'm visualizing. I know what visualizing is and this ain't it.

Silva involved a lot of white screen, mirrors, etc. I'm not able to close my eyes and point to them and say I'm visualizing because they're not there and I don't know how to put them there.

I'm not even able to visualize, say the color red, or a red apple when my eyes are closed. I can think about them and remember that I really do know what they look like, but they make no appearances to my mind's eye, third eye, or whatever.

Sorry if this has taken on the appearance of a rant and it's certainly not meant to be a flame. Just frustration for a life-long problem I have yet been unable to unravel, in spite of all my efforts and money I have spent on "programs" and books and tapes, etc.

They all want you to visualize with or without white screens. With your eyes closed.

So, thank you for your patience. Hopefully, you were able to have some. Else, I'm sure it was a long read. smile

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Hi Cris,

Sounds very frustrating! I can sympathize. Though not to the same degree, I've myself had some difficulty visualizing, despite a life-long desire and belief that I ought to be much better at it! smile

I can't say for sure what you'll need to do to locate your "missing" visualization skills. Instead, I'll just describe a little of my own experiences and discoveries, and hope that maybe you... (or at least someone else reading this)... will find it helpful.

One of my biggest revelations along the way was that my standards were WAY too high! I had some strange idea that "visualization" was supposed to be like hallucinating. I read stories of people like Nikola Tesla who could supposedly design machines in his mind so vividly that he could come back a few days later to see how much the gears had worn down. Of course I'd LOVE to be able to do that. And I felt envious of everyone I heard of with stories of being able to have insanely lucid hallucination-quality visualizations.

So... biased by that crazy expectation, when I did "visualization" exercises, I'd always say that I couldn't "see" anything. It was frustrating. I would try really hard to "see"... but I'd just go blank. It was really frustrating not to be able experience life like a schizophrenic.(!)

Then a few years ago during the course of a few meditations, I noticed a subtle detail that completely changed everything. It was a simple difference in how the leader *worded* the instructions. The difference was this:

When they asked me to "visualize"... I saw nothing.

When they asked me to "IMAGINE"... I found I could *feel* my way through an imaginary situation. I could *imagine* holding balls of energy in my hands... even though I could not see a thing. I could *imagine* people standing in front of me... and even answer questions about them... even though I couldn't see them.

Turns out -- I could IMAGINE things just fine! That one realization turned everything around for me. It changed how I approach just about everything. For one, I *never* ask clients to "picture" or "visualize" something... (unless it's already been established that they're a visual person who literally "sees" things in their imagination)... but instead ask them to *IMAGINE*

(Not that "imagine" is a magical word or anything. I've encountered more than one situation where someone couldn't 'imagine'... so we played with the wording until we found some common language.)

So what I've had to learn is either 1) Translate "visualize" into "imagine"... Or when it becomes too annoying... 2) Avoid scripted meditations that refuse to break out of this very limiting language. Honestly, I often find myself taking the second route, because I don't want to get stuck with a training (or trainer) that's already biased against me. smile

And once I learned to do that... to start living within my own strengths... as someone with a VERY good imagination (even if it's kind of mysterious what kind of 'sense' I'm using to daydream)...

I have since become very good at literally Visualizing. It's still not "hallucination-quality" -- (as if that really means anything, since all imaginary phenomena are technically hallucinations) -- but I can dependably create imaginary visions... as long as I *FEEL* them out first! (In a sense, I actually sculpt them.)

Lemme know if you (or anyone else) can relate...

Coach Rik

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You're trying to see with the third eye? That's not necessary for visualisation, yes memory is. Why do you want to take memory out of visualisation? It's a huge part of it. Without memory you cannot begin to visualise.

The more you play with memory, remembering dreams replaying past reels of experience the more you tap your visualisation skills.

I don't see a white screen, I remember what one looks like. Then I remember a polar bear, wearing a pink bikini with lime green polka dots, dancing on ice followed by a huge rabbit carrying a blue umbrella sliding on it's oversized brown fluffy tail across the ice bowling over the polar bear. The polar bear lands in the overturned umbrella spinning like a top.

To write all that I had to visualise, with my eyes open.

What you're trying to do is see with the eyeballs. Seeing with the minds eye is subtle and you find it by tapping your memory.

Play with image streaming from the Genius Code Course. Unfortunately the ability to visualise with clarity you are looking for atrophies in adults to be almost non-existent by the age of 40. It can be recovered by playing with memory techniques that require you to recall images. Image streaming is also a good way. The fact is it's not a skill we are without it's one we don't recognise because we judge, jump to the first answers.

Tap your memory if you want to build your visualisation skills.

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Originally Posted By: coachrik

When they asked me to "visualize"... I saw nothing.

When they asked me to "IMAGINE"... I found I could *feel* my way through an imaginary situation. I could *imagine* holding balls of energy in my hands... even though I could not see a thing. I could *imagine* people standing in front of me... and even answer questions about them... even though I couldn't see them.


I will work on this idea. I sort of get it. Thanks. I would have answered sooner, but I forgot I wrote this posting. blush

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The idea is practically applicable. I will surely think about it.
We all are waiting for your answer.

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andrival, thank you for the reminder. I had forgotten I had ever written this post, let alone having responded to it. However, I would first like to address Alex’s latest post, as it is clear we’re not addressing each other’s needs. So, I’ll be going through his comment in detail, and in the process, giving my experience in “imagination” vs “visualization”.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
You're trying to see with the third eye?


No, Alex, I’m not trying to “see” with my third eye. I’m just trying to access it, to open it. That’s an entirely different thing.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
That's not necessary for visualisation, yes memory is.


I would respectfully disagree with you, Alex. I’ve read enough books; I’ve listened to enough tapes, CDs and radio shows; I’ve watched enough videos to realize that the third eye is the seat of all visualization-type experiences, as well as many other extra-physical experiences.

I’ve heard of too many visual experiences people have had that they had never before experienced; hence, memory had nothing to do with them. Yet, they were highly visual.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Why do you want to take memory out of visualisation? It's a huge part of it. Without memory you cannot begin to visualise.


Memory may have something to do with directed visualization, but not, so far as I’ve been able to tell, with, say, setting up a mental workshop, complete with “guides” who are there visually to help you, to answer questions you give them, to offer advice, to show you things, and so forth.

While I can remember what four walls look like, a desk, a chair, and so forth, all the things necessary to build a mental workshop, I’m not able to make use of them, even by “imagining”.

I’ve tried “imagining” the way Coach Rik suggested, and while I can sort of “imagine” a workshop, I’ve never gotten any benefit out of it. While I can “imagine” (sort of) a “guide”, and I can ask questions of the “guide” until the moon turn into green cheese, I can get nothing out of the “guide”. No acknowledgment of any kind.

So, what good is memory in situations like this? Absolutely none.

I appreciate the time you took, Alex, to respond to me, but it’s clear, at least to me, that we are not on the same page here. While you may have had good experience with memory and visualization, why cannot you accept that I haven’t?

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
The more you play with memory, remembering dreams replaying past reels of experience the more you tap your visualisation skills.


First of all, I am not able to play with my memory. I barely have one. That means I have to take a different direction.

Secondly, I am not able to play “past reels of experience”. I’m hardly able to remember them, let alone play them back as if I were looking at a video recording. I’ve heard of others who can do exactly that, but I’m not able to.

Third, I’m not able to recall, say, smells or songs or anything out of my past and play them back. For instance, I’m not able to think about my favorite cologne when I was in the Air Force and bring up the smell memory of that cologne.

I can remember a song, but I am not able to hear it in my mind, although I can “imagine” it—but only if I can remember the words and sing it either in my mind or aloud.

No memory at work here, so far as playback goes, only bringing back the fact that I can remember the words (very rarely) and the melody. I’m not able to play back the song in my mind, not as I heard it on the radio way back when. If I can remember a song at all, it’s in my voice, not in the original voice, and without music.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
I don't see a white screen, I remember what one looks like. Then I remember a polar bear, wearing a pink bikini with lime green polka dots, dancing on ice followed by a huge rabbit carrying a blue umbrella sliding on it's oversized brown fluffy tail across the ice bowling over the polar bear. The polar bear lands in the overturned umbrella spinning like a top.


I can remember what a white screen looks like, but it doesn’t help me remember one visually when I close my eyes. Total blackness is not a white screen, no matter how well I can remember what one looks like. Black does not equate to white, at least to me.

I can try and “imagine” such a thing you described here, but all I get is black on black “images”, if I can call them that. And I’m using the word “images” really loosely here.

I can sort of “imagine” a polar bear, but only a black polar bear with a black background.

I can try to put a pink bikini on it by mentally forcing the idea onto the black polar bear, but no pink. And I can sort of do the same with the rest of your description, using Coach Rik’s suggestions, but what do I have in the end? Black on black. In other words, nothing.

I have no memory of such a creature, but I tried relying on your memory of such a creature, which I suspect you have none. But you painted a picture and I tried to duplicate it, but all I have in my palette is the color black.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
What you're trying to do is see with the eyeballs. Seeing with the minds eye is subtle and you find it by tapping your memory.


First of all, that is not what I am trying to do. If you remember, one of the statements I made earlier is, “I understand visualization is not seen through the physical eyes.”

Secondly, I still have not seen or heard anything that makes sense that describes how a mental memory of something can equate to a visual representation of that memory, let alone how someone can get a visual presentation of something for which he has no memory.

Thirdly, while I believe memory can be an integral part of using the mind’s eye, I have not seen anything to suggest that it is the only way to tap into one’s mind’s eye, other than your saying so.

In my understanding, the mind’s eye, or third eye, or whatever you wish to call it, is the portal, if you will, to putting oneself in touch with the “universe”, so-called. And I suspect there is much more in the universe that can be “seen” that has nothing to do with one’s memory, let alone all the memories on earth. And I’ve heard of many such experiences from the experiencers, and unless they were all lying, memory played no part in their experiences.

And I am not even looking for that, just something simple, like a green tree that is actually green.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Play with image streaming from the Genius Code Course.


No more courses. No more money spent on things that have a 100 percent zero track record. They may work for you and for others, but I have been unable to make any of them work for me.

I’ve worked with several different methods, such as Matrix Energetics, obviously Paraliminals, Quantum Touch, and several others to try and fix whatever’s wrong here, but I don’t know what’s wrong. I’m glad memory has worked for you, but it hasn’t worked for me.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Unfortunately the ability to visualise with clarity you are looking for atrophies in adults to be almost non-existent by the age of 40.


I don’t buy that. If it atrophies at all, it’s because it’s not used, not because it’s just something that happens when one grows older, like wrinkly skin, and that doesn’t have to happen either.

However, in order to atrophy, one must have had it in the first place, and I’ve never had it in the first place to lose.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
It can be recovered by playing with memory techniques that require you to recall images.


I’ve read the memory books, tried the suggestions. Parts of the Silva Method and the various memory books rely heavily upon this technique. However, I wasn’t able to remember the memory pegs. Some of them, but not all.

Anything that requires memory to have success has been a bust for me. I had the same problem in school where the more I had to memorize, the worse my grades got.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Image streaming is also a good way.


I don’t know what this is. Given that, I must say that my memory doesn’t stream very well, I’m afraid.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
The fact is it's not a skill we are without it's one we don't recognise because we judge, jump to the first answers.


I believe that it’s a skill that everyone has; I just haven’t been able to find it. And it’s an assumption on your part, if you are insinuating that I am judging, jumping “to the first answers.” I’m not even sure what you mean by this, except that you’re assuming that I do this.

As I’ve said, I’m not uneducated in these matters. I’m highly read, if you throw in audios and visuals. I assure you that I am not jumping “to the first answers” in all this material.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Tap your memory if you want to build your visualisation skills.


Summary: It just doesn’t work that way for me.

Now, to get onto the “imagination” idea of Coach Rik.

As it turns out, I think I’ve already addressed much of this imagination issue in the above remarks to Alex. I can only add this:

If all I can imagine is blackness in a background of blackness, what have I got, really? If you wish to call this visualization, fine. But it’s totally useless to me. And this has been my experience for years on end.

I can imagine an apple, say, but I cannot imagine a red apple, or any other color, for that matter. I can imagine the softball-sized hail dents in my metal front door, but I can’t feel the dents with my inner sense of touch. I am out of touch with all my inner senses. Visualization is only one of them.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

And it hasn’t gotten any better over the years I have worked at this. So, Coach Rik, I have been using “imagining” for many years, I just haven’t been able to get anywhere with it.

I do not think my expectations are unrealistic, nor do I think my standards are way too high. I just want to experience something visual in my mind, other than blackness. Is that unrealistic or too high an expectation?

By the way, to me, hallucinating is something caused by something external, like drugs or hallucinogens. Visualization isn’t externally caused, it’s internal. And you really don’t want to “experience life like a schizophrenic.” Believe me, you don’t. So, I hope you weren’t serious when you said that.

Thanks for all your suggestions and for taking the time to write them. I’m not trying to be negative or a nay-sayer, but it’s just that I have been trying for decades to access something pretty much everyone else can access.

All I want to do is open my third eye, mind’s eye, or whatever you wish to call it and let happen what will happen. But techniques just do not seem to work. For me.

I constantly listen to binaural beats with music, isochronic beats with music, have watched all the open-the-third-eye videos on youtube, listened to Paraliminals, hypnosis audios, used light and sound technology, all on a very consistent basis.

Nothing seems to work or want to change. So, maybe it’s all in my mind after all. smile

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How do you know you're visualising a red apple and not a green one? Why are you mentioning a red apple in your post? Where did the idea come from?

To visualise is different than developing the third eye.

Visualising is the mental creation of an image. Like deciding where to put a table in a room. Design a building or choosing clothes. You mentally create an image. It disappears quickly. However mental creation is usually the putting together of remembered images. It's easier for me to visualise a hippo in a tutu than a polar bear in a bikini because I have seen a hippo in a tutu.

Seeing with the 3rd eye is a different experience again. I was asking if you were working on opening seeing with the third eye.

You realise you must have visualised when you assigned me a gender.

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Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
How do you know you're visualising a red apple and not a green one? Why are you mentioning a red apple in your post? Where did the idea come from?


First of all, I am not visualizing anything—no red apple, no green apple. I'm imagining such a thing, but only in blackness, in which I "see" or "visualize" nothing.

I remember in words such a thing as a red apple; you're not going to trick me there. I'm not "seeing" a red apple. I'm remembering there is such a thing.

If there is a red apple sitting in front of me, I can remember that it is a red apple from descriptions given me as a youth. I'm not visualizing the red apple in front of me; I'm "seeing" it with my eyeballs.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
To visualise is different than developing the third eye.


I'm not so sure, having experienced neither.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Visualising is the mental creation of an image. Like deciding where to put a table in a room. Design a building or choosing clothes. You mentally create an image. It disappears quickly.


Right, an "image", not blackness. I decide where to put a table in a room by my eyesight and mental processes, which you, undoubtedly will describe as visualization.

Call it what you like. I just move stuff around until I like what I see with my eyeballs. If I see a space in the room, I can move something there to see if I like it. If you want to call that process visualization, fine. Play with your words.

I choose clothes because I like their colors—with my eyeballs. I don't mentally create an image. The image is right there in front of me. I "see" it; I don't visualize it. It's already there. I choose the clothes because I like them.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
However mental creation is usually the putting together of remembered images. It's easier for me to visualise a hippo in a tutu than a polar bear in a bikini because I have seen a hippo in a tutu.


To me, you're just playing around with words. The point is, I do not know how to form mental "images" to the point that I would describe them as visualizations.

Blackness is not visualization. You may think it is, but I don't. I'd trade my blackness for your ability to visualize any day. Then maybe you'd "see" what I'm talking about.

I've seen neither a hippo nor a polar bear dressed as you suggest. Yet, if I were to describe what you described to my friend, he would be able to visualize such a beast, even though he'd never seen one before. THAT'S visualization!

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
Seeing with the 3rd eye is a different experience again. I was asking if you were working on opening seeing with the third eye.


I'm using various aural and visual means of trying to open my third eye, all to no avail. Yet, I continue to pursue that worthy goal.

Originally Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus
You realise you must have visualised when you assigned me a gender.


No, you just talk like a male. While Alex can be assigned to a female, it is more than likely a male. The odds are with me. smile

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