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Babayada,

We seem to have come around in one complete circle, reminding me of my question posted a few months ago:
http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000029.html

Maybe it is a matter of semantics, in that we are talking about a realm of being and seeing which cannot be translated into words and described. Maybe the word "truth" is the closest we can come to in describing that state which Paul is trying to describe, which has so many totally different meanings to different people. Maybe, to using the word,"truth" is only a starting point, which will at least start people on the journey of discovery.

I wish I knew what the sages mean when they describe truth as "a state of knowing".






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Which reminds me of cartoon I once saw.

Two cave men were standing by a marijuana plant, smoking a joint.

They both have half-closed, blood-shot eyes. The cave man holding the joint looks at the other one and says, "You know, I don't know what this stuff is, but it's pretty amazing. It makes me feel like every thought that I am thinking is profound."

States of being are fine and dandy, but lets not take simply being content and turn it into the mother of all states, in which everything is fulfilled and yada yada yada.

Feeling hungry is just as important as feeling full, and each have their place.

Is supergeneralization the answer to all problems? Does it produce a state of nirvana? I doubt it.

And I feel sort of awkward having to point this out, but, while much of what Paul is and does impresses a great deal, there are important differences between him and, say, Rumi or Lao Tze.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 12, 2004).]






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Not to disagree with your points but to point out a big thing to me is that we all have our own minds. In order to find Happiness we have to be willing to give up beliefs, values, perceptions that don't serve us. In order to do that you first have to know what they are for you, most people don't know what they believe in, what values system they use, or how they filter their perceptions. You only have control over you're own self and your internal make up, or to say that you can get control over how you respond to the outer world if you have built your inner world the way you want. You can build your own belief system and find evidence of it being true everywhere. You can only get rid of it if you bring it to consciousness and make changes so it serves you.

You can't honestly be concerned about anyone else other than yourself first. You have to be happy before you can truely make others happy. You have control over yourself not others. When you are working right it spreads to others.

I believe that you have to focus on what you want in this life to get it, worrying about others going off the path is a waste of time, you have to trust that they will figure it out or maybe they really wanted to end up in the ditch. In my complete disbelief I have seen many people who didn;t want any help and shooting themself in the foot was the purpose of life.

I found much happiness knowing I did not share their path.

Paul may not be a Great Sage but I would say he is a great friend to any one who is on this path of seeking abundance. Friends in life who help you are a great asset. By treating them with respect you also treat yourself with respect, by treating them with disrespect you belittle the lessons you learned and cheapen yourself.

He gives you a great tittle "Abundance for Life" . Try focusing your mind on that, meditate on it, make it a burning desire and a passion to choose to have it. I think only a good friend would give you that idea. What you make of it is your choice, the power comes from you.

And maybe, for fun, think about this question "Who were you before you were dead?"

Jeff






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Around one and half year ago I was using the Borrowed Genius session from the Genius Code PLC for improving my relationships with people and decided to use Paul Scheele as genius from whom to borrow

Here is short description of this particular streaming session.

----------
I entered into Zen garden and meat Sean Connery there almost at the gate. I was first a bit disappointed, because I had used him as role model during the Instantaneous Personal Magnetism Paraliminal already.

This was with excellent results, but I was hoping to meet Paul Scheele (This was before I had actually meat him). Sean noticed this right away and told me not to worry, he is here as friend, he will guide and introduce the garden.

First then I changed same kind of kimono that Sean was using and then we started walking and also taking care of the garden. He told me the history of the place and we had good time. After this we arrived to temple that was like dragons head. Sean told me that from here I need to proceed alone.

I went into the dragons head and it was full of light, it was so bright that I didn't see anything just white. I continued walking forward and then saw figure of meditating man. He was back wards, but I knew that he was Paul Scheele. He was also wearing clothes that where pure white. I walked forward and after a while the session encouraged me to jump into Paul and experience the world through his "eyes".

I felt so good, it was amazing and suddenly I noticed that I was not alone in the room. It was actually full of people. They where all my friends and there was very special bond between me and them, we where all one and I was one with everything.

I stayed there for a while, and then expressed my grattitude to Paul for borrowing his genius. Then I walked back to the garden and out side from the gate.
---------

First I was kind of shocked of this Image Stream, because I didn't want to think anyone as Guru, someone that I would worship. This was fear in side of me.

Then about one year later my life was very magical and through series of events I became Buddhist. For the fist time I started studying about the topic and learned for example that if you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.

It was so big relief for me now everything in the Image Stream made sense. But it took one year to actually take the action that the stream has encouraged. I had just been afraid of the guru thing, because I didnˇ¦t know enough.

Now when I meditate in front of Buddha statue, its me who is there. I feel 100% ones with the statue, also if I bow in front of the statue; I bow for my self I kind of belief that what is me in the statue is what I was before my birth and will be after I die. And it's really grate to have this connection while living. After all I believe that when I'm dead I ´will not have such luxury as feelings or emotions.

I was just recently listening seminar by James Ray from CD, and he emphasised that we are all spiritual beings who have manifested physical body. He said that we should appreciate the body and this physical form, rather than trying to get away from it. There is reason for us to have this form, this is the greatest this that we have. I agree this 100%!

But in order to understand this, for me it required to understand my "truth"...

Well, now it's written down YES, YES, YES!

Eric

PS: I believe that all the religions are about the same thing, just form different perceptions. I just happen to experience this from this perspective, so don't believe a word I say, but experience your self!

PSS: I was keeping this inside for a very long time, it feels good to let it out. What a silly fear...

[This message has been edited by Eric_G (edited October 15, 2004).]






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Hehehe. Yep.

You were Paul Scheele. It was your neurology that created that experience of him in the first place. If you began worshipping him from that experience, you would really only be worshipping yourself.








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we are like a schizophrenic person
they within the body multiple personalities
us within the universe multiple personalities

wonder why we are always fighting?
wonder why to work things out brings peace

it can be healed

but alway in two of my pasts lives i was the egyptian God Anubis though not completely as they knew him to be and once Socrates
the only two that are famous at least
and of just over three hundred that have been human
u would not believe some of the forms i have been

buddhist rebirth theory is much more refined than that of hindu

the dalai lame was once asked "what is it exactly that is reborn?"
he replied "mostly your bad habits"

hahaha i love that






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jeffdengr - holding onto one thing too much u get grasping which can bring pain cause all conditioned things change
not holding onto it cause u do not like it brings pain
ignorance brings pain
perhaps not instantly but it will come

it is true that now is the only moment

Mark-11 - comfort is not nice?
it comes and goes thats the only thing
once again do not hold on onto
we are reborn not in after life
it is life again
it goes like this
birth-life-death-rebirth
it can be said that birth and death are different aspects of the same thing
when u are deep in duality u see death opposed to life
when u see it for what it is it is scary or difficult to look forward to
most see it as freedom
only when enlightened
parinibbana

jeffdengr - meditation is not just sitting but living - it removes ignorance
use mindfullness to see what things are like right now

genorosity opposes greediness
morality opposes lack of it
Renunciation - Grasping
Wisdom - delusion
effort - sloth
Patience - impatience
Truthfulness - deceit
Resolution - undetermined
Loving-kindness - indifference
Equanimity - paranoia & stress etc

focus brings light to them
memories are all within
why do they call computer memory memory?
comps are not as effecient but u get the point

recall is our problem
also perception
not reception

my brain runs at more than half a yottabyte
a second but there is much to go and some of the other senses slow some of it down

sorry
yottabyte = 1,208,925,819,614,629,174,706,176 bytes/sec

think of how well computers do things
we do it all the time and only never reboot till we die
ive seen no limits

InquiringMind - they are both of no effect in the present still maybe worth thinking about at some point
nothing is not worth considering

children are just innocent

something a Buddhist nun said once
she was asking a Catholic priest if she should go back to retreat or create a nunery

he said "life is a bit of wood - if u go back to retreat u will be rubbing urself with velvet all the time, the nunery will be sandpaper"

children havent had much experience so the ability to cope with it hasnt been shown yet either

the supreme being yes we all exist there and move through it
like a circle

NeoZon - i remember much of pasts lives when i meditate on it but sometimes i have reoccuring thoughts of things and people

i have a friends who i have been with 8 times in the last 20 or so reincarnations
few have been human but we have a magnetism

i know him better than i know myself
same with him

jeffdengr family is only really blood links im not sure that u move from one to the other forms within ur family line
tradition and customs take care of the things u may have seen

what we see as ourselves has 5 parts
feelings
thought
perception
body
conciousness

they are all interpendant that is why we see them as one or two
body and mind
aspects of each other

babayada - good on ya for the joy of it all

past and future shape
they are dependant to on now as now is dependant on past and future
we learn from mistakes and learn not to make them again
now we do the learning

Eric_G - ur almost on the right track

practice the wrong thing though u get bad results


right view and intention are wisdom
rightspeech, action & livelihood are ethics
right effort mindfulness and concentration are mental

practice them and gain experience
with experience of that u gain enlightenment
no more rebirth

jeffdengr - funny why people are so scared of death when it is so peacefull
no confusion simply pain
i look at it and laugh
i truely laugh in the face of death

ShaneXEdge - too true
life is a thread we are hanging by

"reaching out to embrace whatever may come" - from a tool song called lateralus

Eric_G - anyone who lines up theory with Buddha has done some good work i say

Edmilio - ever done reiki or tai chi or anything like that?
did u know butterflies can beating wings in succession create a thunderstorm across the world?
beauty i think

this is all illusion
just try to make sense of it cause i will not go away like a desert mirage when u jump in for a swim

peace love & joy straight back to ya

Frodo02 - i think near death is just life
not death
people say something just missed them
not just it did
same as if it never came close right?
language is silly at times especially english

the unconditional part of us the super conciousness
the undying the unborn yes
that is not i but us
to use conventional terms

babayada - yes the body rots but it still remains
the cirle of life is made of death as much as it is of death
conditioned reality contradicts itself
energy truely is indestructible but perhaps only in the conditioned states of form and non-form

something ill have to meditate on
(well sitting as opposed to living)
its a little deeper to wrap around

SHEANIMA - human being goes not have a higher power
God is not a reality in itself
God claims to be dependant from all
but needed to create us why?
because he is love?
haha
is he is love then why do we have it?
because he is everywhere?
why do we have to ascend to heaven?
old school flat earth theory from antiquity
its old and unfounded

they are nice people thats all

Mark-11 - the being never changes just who what, where, why and when i believe

to be or not to be
ask urself that question

SHEANIMA - claiming to be a freethinker and being christian is a little difficult
they walk on a thin line as bill hicks says

to be free is to not be trapped in anything
jesus or hell is not my idea of free

deaf and dumb and blind and born to follow - another awesome Tool quote from the song Opiate
look at the lyrics they are quite enlightening to the world of christianity

trust without judgement and questioning is not freedom

what is 2?
what is 4?
think about more than what u know

babayada - orwell altogether still play on my mind everyday
he is a genius!!!

things are not as they seem yes

SHEANIMA - absolute yes but nothing is constant

unless u believe in God and soul
hehe

tell me any emotion continues all the time and ill laugh
cept unconditional love
unconditioned can be constand and permanent

mundane love turns to hate very quickly

A house cannot initiate the construction of itself. - SHEANIMA
thats right
u just confirmed that things are dependant of each other to exist right?
remove man does God exist?
wait
did he ever?
lmao
simple is sometimes best

and children made u realise that
haha amazing
great work

who created the creator?
even god said everything has a first cause

the will to be was it
the will =to not be does not counter it but creat another conditioned state the realm of gods
unlike the bible god,allah and yahweh or shekinah the two sides of the jewish Godhead
which has been supressed by the churches or time
the holy spirit is female
why else is god androgynous?
jesus male + shekina female = god both

the word heremaphrodite
hermes + aphroditie = hermaphrodite
zwitter zwitter haha
zwei in deutsch is two

u see humans relise all this without relising
why u think there is all the internal and preojected external strife
the external from people looking outwards
God is outwards

hope this answers some questions of a few inquiring minds

look deeper into all the main religions and especially egyptian mythology
the ankh

why the hell do christians say amen after prayer?
hello!!!!! amen the sun god of egyptian myth

i said that to a christian of 67 years she went "those egyptians got it wrong"
haha
u just gotta laugh sometimes

ur core beliefs
haha resistance to change and being wrong
the ultimate prison cell
i feel sorrow for u
buddhism is the most complete religion of religions
u are NOT free thinking
must i repeast it?
anyone find this as amusing as i do? lmao

jeffdengr - try buddhadhamma (buddhism)
its an awesome truth
and pure like none other
and the path to enlightenment
ith no stories that seem to be lies and no claim that we have freewill while being in accordance to a predestines plan

truth is often relative
why we get the feeling of self place and time

babayada - check out sacred geometry
the whole unverse conforms to one plan yes but it is not one that is of any god
the only bad is of our own creation
somethings are not completely in our control
but they can be coersed (spelling?)

great u believe that religion and such can change other beliefs
i know many that do not

right we can choose to think and not
we can make it usefull while we have it
but to need it is the pain creator

Alex K. Viefhaus - ur right but u still look forward to lunch hehe
saying is one thing apart from doing if they are different

i know im not perfect either
but just a thought

and it can matter who u where
mozart would have never made such wonderfull music if he had never looked into it and the superconciousness

change form yes
but the core is mostly the same
to be completely new is to say it was all destroyed and recreated

SHEANIMA - just something for u think about
the unchanging God u believe in right why did he create and them not create?
that is a change
there are thousands of them in the bible
the ever changing God

omnipresent but not possibly in this manifestation - why he needs the holy spirit

perfect means completely made

he is not complete we can see he needed us
and he is supposedly not made

which is it lol?
freedom and happiness. indeed

politics can be great
but christians have a bad record of it
Hitler and Bush are two good examples lmao

babayada - measure with ur experiences
do not allow something to be trusted or believed without trying it out

deep reflection is needed

livingsuccess - one would need to let go of all conceptualising

we do need to find something
the ending of the cycle

but do not worry about it too much
just walk in the right direction
and take one step after another
one breath after another

jeffdengr life is not what u want to do
it does not exist
that is the worldly sickness
we exist now
why not being now!?!?!

flight is possible for humans
just takes a long time to focus the energy and develop the skill to do it

may seem crazy yes
but God now that isnt? hahaha

truth sometimes is weirder than fiction

babayada - why would u kill Buddha?
thats rather unacceptable that u want to kill
but Buddha?
Budhism is not a religion it is an education

Paul schelle is pretty good
he gets a lot right
some wrong but u do not have the mind to decide on each in order to say yes or now

u simply say yes

InquiringMind - yes but maybe just change
through defeat and lack or reason

though that can change also

the cesret is the mindpoint
the middle path

not optimism or pessimism
but halfway
that way u do not get dissapointed or swell in unhappiness

u get me?

buddhism leads to nibbana i know that much

jeffdengr - yes we must let go

once u learn to love urself unconditionaly u move it to all because u learn how things are interdependant
you are me i am u
we are one

haha i like ur imagery
i met buddhas in a room with no walls
they had 2 boxes each and opened them around me to take a piece of me into each
buddha gave me love and understanding which flowed in through my third eye and the other buddha opened the other box and new pieces of colours blue red yellow white and orange came to make me whole again

it was very strange as i remembered it and dreamed it later a few times
i not longer have nightmares

we swapped clother
i was originally in a roman toga and him in his ascetic garb

i think im going to become a monk for some reason

i feel good always through constain meditations and pure thoughts (i would like to believe)
im not that far through the tapes yet

no need to kill Buddha
just be with the buddha and thank him for giving his best

would u expect anymore or less?

a different perception can change a lot

WOW
thanx to all reading this rant
i hope u come up with something to counter anything wrong and hope read it through to see
Much love Prana






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On killing the Buddha, the emphasis on killing is probably using drama to nail in a point (as with Christianity). There is another example of it where the Buddha gets killed.

There was once a Zen Master who lived, as they often do, near the top of a mountain. People would travel from miles and miles around, seeking him out for the answers to their questions.

Whenever someone would ask him a question, such as, "What is the true nature of the Buddha?" he would look at them with a piercing glance and point his index finger at them. There was something about the presentation or the spirit of the master doing it, because many upon receiving this answer would become enlightened.

One day the Zen Master was sick, and there was a long line of people waiting for him. The Zen Master's son saw this, and he was an impish sort. His son saw what his father did in answer to everyone's questions and figured, hell, that isn't so hard. None of the questioners had ever seen the Master before, so the son just dressed up in his father's clothing, went and sat on his chair like his father, and commenced the finger pointing.

Lo and behold, people started becoming enlightened from the son's shennanigans. The sick father heard some commotion from his bed and looked to find an imposter on his chair imitating him! Worse, he realized the perpetrator was none other than his son. "Well," thought the Zen Master, "time to fix his little red wagon and teach him a lesson."

The Zen Master dressed up as a beggar, smearing dirt and screwing up his face so his son wouldn't recognize him. He took a knife from the kitchen and held it behind him, so his son wouldn't see what was coming.

The old man got in line, and when it came him turn he said, "Great Master, could you please tell me, who is the Buddha?"

When the son looked piercingly at the father and pointed with his finger at his father, the Zen Master grabbed the finger with one hand and with the other cut the finger completely off.

It was at this very moment the the Zen Master's son was enlightened.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 16, 2004).]






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Jeff,

I do not think and did not mean to imply that Paul Scheele presents himself as an enlightened sage. Despite the fact that he does not, despite the fact that he takes pains to indicate something to the contrary (you'll notice how he willingly discusses his own flaws and trials), people are more than willing to put him up on that pedestal. This is not good for anyone involved. That's my point of view.

Beliefs are not some things you get rid of.

People think and believe as they do because of the information they have available to them.

When I was a child and believed in Santa Claus, I did so because I had a limited amount of information available to me. My parents were actively engaged in a conspiracy to fool me. My dad left out cookies and milk for Santa and a bowl of water and carrots for Rudolf. At some point during the day, my dad took pains to get me to notice the empty glass of milk and a left-over half-eaten cookie. "Look at the nibble-marks on the carrot," my dad said, "have you ever seen the marks reindeer teeth make?"

I felt funny about all that when that happened, because my dad's performance was exaggerated and he was just a little bit too eager for me to notice all that. He also made a big deal about leaving those items out for Santa. That was the clue for me that something was amiss. If he had simply made no big deal about it, and maybe my mom made a bitter off-hand remark about Santa not cleaning up after himself, they might have had me for longer, but I figured it out.

I learned that my dad drank the milk and ate the cookies. He nibbled on the carrots and threw out the water. Mom and Dad bought the gifts each Christmas. While I was being fooled, I had a nagging feeling about it all. That nagging feeling led to inquiry and active disbelief.

Was my belief in Santa Claus removed? You could think of it that way, but you would be thinking like a simpleton if you did. Beliefs are conclusions we draw from experience. When the frame of the experience changes, the conclusions change. Beliefs aren't removed. The memory of the old way of perceiving is still there. With new information, however, you just can't believe what you used to. Nothing is removed, rather something is added.

When you see a magician's trick you might be totally fooled if you're a kid. Other kids did not like the fact that I was the one who looked for the trick and made it obvious by blurting it out once I found out how the magician did it. I was surprised when I found that many people would rather be fooled than to figure out or explore the truth.

What happens to the belief in the magic when you find out how the gag is enacted--that the dove flying out from the frying pan was hidden in a section under the lid that the magician tried to keep from your view? That the flourishing gesture with one hand was supposed to keep your awareness away from what the other one did?

Well, like the milk into the newspaper, it doesn't disappear. It exists within a context of new information, new understanding, and fits differently because of it. The notion is there, it just bears a different relation to the truth. Once you see that the milk went down a tube and into the magician's sleeve, it's apparent where it is, how everything all fits together.

I get a lot of nagging feelings about some of the more "magical" stuff in these courses. It sure feels good to believe some things. Doesn't it? Kids love to believe in Santa Claus. Maybe some people need to believe they are all powerful gods in order to muster up the courage to act? Maybe they need some opiates to get themselves going? Well, ok. But I'd like to think we're adults. I find it better to simply make the best with what you got. simply As human beings, simply using material resources so much is possible. So much. You don't really need mental tricks and sleight of mouth using outrageously questionable notions and spirituality. If that's your thing, fine. But it really isn't necessary. Santa Claus doesn't deliver your gifts on Christmas, at is isn't a magical super-power that brings you the things you want in life. It's your nervous system noticing information in the world and your brain processing it. It's your intelligence to figure out how to get what you want, your resourcefulness, and your actions that are responsible.

Maybe things seem to "happen" magically because you notice them? Maybe you sensitized yourself because you became clear on what you want and expected it to happen? Maybe expectations are powerful? Not magically powerful, just practically. You see things because your expectation to see them puts you into a heightened state of responsiveness to a certain category of stimuli. No need for notions about oneness with the universe and sending out thought forms into the ether and all that.

It's possible that this is what is occurring, but in my view it is very unlikely.

We don't manifest a la the shoemaker and his elves. We manifest from paying attention, having the courage to try and act, and being persistent. No added mysticism necessary.

Is that an impoverished view? Well, the fat has been cut off, but the meat remains.

In terms of fooling yourself, I think the Subgeniuses have a good philosophy. Go ahead and pull the wool over your own eyes if you want ... just know what you're doing and remember that you've done it.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 16, 2004).]






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Babayada;

Magic, I hear from my good friend Bill Harris that there is no magic, I hear it from many people. Even my kids tell me there is no such thing as magic.

There is that little extra something in some pockets of life that I call magic. When the Japanese Sword Master draws his sword and makes a cut so fine. His Mind and body are one. It is completely beautiful it is completely perfect.

When the Dragster is in the pits and after the Master Mechanic starts it up, you can hear that it is already the winner of the next race. It doesn't even need to race but it does and wins anyway.

When the Mariner sails into harms way to rescue someone and does his task without messing his hair or putting down the cup of coffee. Yet danger is all around his vessel.

These things might really fall under the catagory of Faith. They knew without a doubt that it would happen that way. This is what they were looking for, what they expected
and it happened. To me as the casual observer it was something I admired and called "Magic" because it was beyond me.

The power of faith is alot like Electricity.
You know it is there but it is beyond most peoples understanding. The lights are on, the toilets flush so we must have electricity.

The planet rotates around the sun, the solar system goes around something else, so we must have a Universe. Looks alot like a big electrical generator to me.

Your desciption of beliefs, to me seem more like perceptions, I view a belief as something I operate on. I believe that you can change beliefs. If you find that one does not serve you as well as something else might, I think you can throw it in the Mental Garbage can and have it hauled off.

A belief doesn't have to be true either to operate off of it. I mean look at all the people who believe low carbs diets are good for you when secretly everyone, who is in the know, eats plenty of pizza and beer to bulk up for body building contests.

The information doesn't really go away but how you operate off of your belief system can.

Honestly my point to you was just being Happy with whatever comes along. The only reason for being that way is that it just makes life easier.

When Buddha shows up, so what, "do you know any good jokes?" If he doesn't then kill him.
Not getting much happinees there, not making my life easier either.

I have never met Paul and honestly I don't expect to. Although through mail and internet these Master Teachers have come to me. I Believe (that word again) that anyone who helps me on my path with education, guidance or just a pat on the back that is applicable to my life is my friend because they have added to the quality of my life.

My job is very technical and for over thirty years I have had to know how to fix almost anything known to man or beast. Read reams of technical data and explain it to a 3 year old in 2 minutes or less and do it with a smile. I enjoy it, it's challenging and the idea of Self Mastery is a never ending path that gets wider and wider.

I'm not trying to impress the 3 year old with what I just boiled down into that little dissertation, I'm going for my personal best. OK so can I do this and be happy all the way through it? Can I release all tension and have this big demand on me at the same time, "How can I?" are some of the things that run through my head as I view this as more training. Doing it this way allows me to take on more and still feel good and makes me grow.

The results seem like magic.

Wish you the best.

Jeff






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